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Hi Kim,
I live in Kerala,India which has a wetter tropical climate (I suppose in a way similar to the tropical climate in Hawaii). My soil is Clay Loam and sub soil is Laterite (rich in iron), Soil pH is acidic (~5.8-6.0), ~350ft above sea level, 2200mm of rain. Temperature climbs to 95*F maximum and 62*F min. Which rootstock would you recommend for my scenario? I have R.multiflora grafts available for purchase from the Northern subtropical regions, will they grow as fast as R.fortuniana? We don't get R.fortuniana grafts here but I've heard reports that they perform extremely well in hot climates (even not going dormant at 86*F heat), should I try to get a cutting and graft my roses over to fortuniana?
Regards,
Flame Master
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Hi Flamemaster, I don't know how multiflora might perform where you are. It has very good freeze resistance, which has nothing to do with your conditions. I would think you would do better with something like a Banksiae or even Brunonii or Gigantea, perhaps even an older Tea? . Viru and Girija Viraraghavan have bred many roses for climates which seem much like yours, if I'm not mistaken. They have used Gigantea extensively and even Tea-Noisette types such as Reve d'Or. Speaking of which, how does Reve d'Or perform in your area? If it does well own root, it might even be a potential candidate as a stock. Fortuniana' claim to fame here is its resistance to root knot nematodes and its vigor. Its disadvantages are the majority of its root system is very near the soil surface, making it less drought tolerant and more susceptible to mechanical and freeze damage. The freeze and drought issues aren't relative to your area, but the mechanical damage may be. I would investigate the Reve d'Or and Banksiae avenues before using multiflora there. I would imagine you should have them more readily available. If not, what other vigorous, climbing Tea types can you easily obtain there? Multiflora can be "T' or chip budded. Banksiae and Fortuniana require chip or cleft grafting. Most of the Teas and Reve d'Or should respond well to either method.
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I usually get some China budded as a rootstock from local nurseries. They grow painfully slow, a 3 year old Montezuma still just has 2 canes and 10 leaves for me. Compared to that, Multiflora is at least vigorous enough that the plant has foliage and some flowers for me.
I'll search for Banksiae or Gigantea. I've read a study on Gigantea being trialed as a rootstock, it performed really well in that study (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306037555_INFLUENCE_OF_ROOTSTOCK_AND_TIME_OF_T-BUDDING_IN_ROSE). However, I doubt whether gigantea would make a good rootsock because if it suckers at all, it might just take over my house from the accounts of it. Do you know about the roots of Banksiae and Gigantea?
Talking about old roses, Madame Isaac Pereira grows wild here, but grafts usually lack vigor. I was wondering whether Fortune's double Yellow would make a good rootstock. I haven't seen Reve d'Or around here at all (I'll try to find a specimen). I will also try to see whether one of Viru's Hybrid Giganteas might make a good rootstock, or ask him about it at least.
Thanks for the reply :) .
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You're welcome! Has there been an issue with Gigantea suckering? I grew it for a short time in my old Newhall garden and it died the first hard freeze of winter. I also grew Montecito, the Gigantea X Brunonii hybrid for years and it had no suckering issues at all. Banksiae roots quite easily here and it has intensely vigorous roots. It must be at least as vigorous as Fortuniana from the experienced top growth of them both. I still grow Nessie, my Montectio X Mlle Cecile Brunner hybrid and its roots are quite vigorous, too. I don't see why Fortune's Double Yellow wouldn't make a decent root stock. At least I don't know of any reasons why it shouldn't. Heaven knows it is vigorous and it grows well own root. We had a small nursery in the Los Angeles area back in the late 1980's who tried budding on Cl Cecile Brunner and found that plant was reluctant to accept any grafts he tried. Unless something odd like that appears with Fortune's, I would think it should be a decent stock, as long as it flourishes where you are. That's likely the best question I could ask...what THRIVES where you are, without suckering? That seems it should be the best candidate for a stock.
I can understand where any of the European type OGRs would suffer there with the hot, humid, wet, which is why I thought the Gigantea, Brunonii, Tea monsters should find it to their liking.
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Does Fortune's Double Yellow sucker on its own roots?
A nurseryman in Australia's tropics is trying Carabella (Riethmuller) as a rootstock, but I don't know if you can obtain it.
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Hi Margaret! I've never seen any evidence of FDY suckering here and the four self seedlings I have of it don't sucker, either. I've not attempted to bud on any of them. What I would suggest to anyone attempting to determine what would be a good stock for their conditions would be to select all types which flourish own root where they are; are easy to root; then generate a number of them and begin experimenting to see if there are specific methods of budding that succeed more easily. Such as, Fortuniana and Banksaie require either cleft grafting or chip budding because of their brittle bark. Trying to "T" bud on them fails because the bark shreds. Multiflora types are easily budded using pretty much any method. Wichurana types are pretty much the same. Some, such as Pink Clouds, Ralph Moore's hybrid multiflora rambler, remain in condition for budding much of the year here, while other types have specific windows for budding where their barks slip easily, allowing access to the cambium layer. Generalizations can be made, but determining what works best and when, where you are requires experimenting.
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I searched around and found this
https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=21.337646
This is the 'multiflora' that is used as a rootstock in India. I don't know what 'multiflora' that is, but it has some nasty curved thorns.
I'll experiment on Gigantea and Banksiae and some old teas I can find. On a side note, I just had a look at Montecito's stats and my God that is Huge! Much of this experiment is to find a vigorous rootstock so that I don't end up with 2 canes and 10 leaves in a 3 year old rose again and this discussion has widened my possibilities on my trial candidates.
@Margaret Furness: I don't think I can find Carabella here, but I'll ask around. Please post his trial results if you can, maybe we can expand this section with a collection of Roses that would be good rootstocks on our respective climates and soil types. Also what about Alister Clarke's hybrid giganteas as root stocks there?
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Your multiflora looks along the lines of multiflora carnea. Most of the multifloras which have been selected for stocks seem to have been chosen because of their lack of prickles. Ralph Moore's "Rum 10" was a thornless selection from his Australian agent, Roy Rumsey. Because of their thicker cambium layers and ease of rooting, multiflora types make very easy stocks. Of course they have other issues which prevent their universal appeal, but particularly for beginners, they are EASY. Gigantea should work as easily with "T" budding as chip budding. Banksiae and Fortuniana must be cleft or chip budded as their barks are far too brittle and will shred if "T" budded. Please let us know what you find. It will be interesting seeing what works well for you! Good luck!
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Thank you so much! I'll certainly post my progress and trials. For now, I need to go on specimen hunting.
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I went to Kodaikanal this holiday season and met Mr and Mrs Viraraghavan. They were really nice and they gave me rooted plants of Fortuneana, Banksiae, Clinophylla (which he thought might be an interesting species for me to try out) and Indica Odrata (which he said might work better than Gigantea for me). The Fortuneana immediately started growing shoots and buds (I suppose this is because the sudden high temperatures here made it think it was spring - will these flower for me otherwise?). I'll wait until it grows some straight canes before I start my experiments. Banksiae and Clinophylla were close second in sending out new shoots (3 days later than Fortuneana). The Odorata is fine but just seems a little dormant now. For some reason we are having really hot spells in January (day temperatures of the order of 32*C when it should've been 28*C). I hope they survive. Viraraghavan was also of the opinion that Rosa Multiflora would be the best for my 'milder Summer climate'.
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Marvelous! I'm so glad you were able to meet the Viraraghavans! They are lovely, gracious people and no one has more experience in raising roses for that type of climate. None of the types they shared with you really require any "winter chill" from my observation and they all flower well in the hotter, inland valleys of Southern California, so I imagine they should flower for you. Odorata is found all over California from left over root stocks from old plants where the scions have died off but the roots are immortal. I grew a Bracteata X Clinophylla hybrid raised from Viru's seed in my Encino garden, but it was left behind in our move to the Central Coast. It flowered very well there where it was HOT and absurdly dry. Whatever Viru suggests for stocks in your climate is what you should do. There is honestly no one I can think of who is more knowledgeable about that subject nor experienced with the conditions. Congratulations!
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I think the rootstock used in India isn't Multiflora var carnea but rather Natal Briar. Can you tell me which is better in a warmer climate, R.fortuniana or Natal Briar?
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I know OF Natal Briar, but have never even seen it. How similar are your conditions to the Viraraghavans'? If they're similar, then they would have the most appropriate advice about your question. s
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Viru lives in Kodaikanal, a hill station with subtropical highland climate (Cfb) [38F lows and 78F highs] , which at least letter wise is similar to England's climate (at least in the spring). I live in the foothills with a tropical monsoon climate (Am) [65F lows and 95F highs], much like the climate of Hawaii or South Florida. In his climate fortuniana grows slow (it exploded into growth once I brought home the specimen he gave me), but Natal Briar becomes huge (there, rootstocks go wild and swallow trees). The major problem I face for roses grafted on Briar is that they take a sleep whenever temperatures rise above 90F and moisture stress is felt, they shed all the leaves and remain as bare cane spectacles. I've heard that fortuniana is more resistant to such a stress and does tend to keep its leaves. However Viru did say that Briar is a good rootstock for 'mild summer' climates like mine.
Contrasting this, I've heard accounts from the American south that fortuniana alleviates the 'bare cane' problem with roses. If this is true, it'd be a much more sustainable way for me to grow roses. Would you know whether these accounts might be true?
On a side note, I feel stupid for asking this instead of trying out a side by side trial of the roses. But fortuniana is proving quite difficult to propagate from cuttings. I expected a humidity dome would give me some success, however it seems I might need to make a misting system for my own.
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I have only grown Fortuniana and anything grafted to it in Zones 9b and 10a Southern and Central California areas. The 9b gardens around the Los Angeles area were mid desert with high levels of aridity and rather high alkalinity. The 10a was similar, with less "winter cold" and periods of marine influence. The current 9b is high in marine influence with the average temperature remaining around 75F. Fortuniana's disadvantage here is how shallow much of its root system remains, making it more susceptible to mechanical damage and any potential harder freezes. I was able to root Fortuniana in the 10a zone by wrapping it in the "winter" period and using the heat the climate provided to stimulate it to form roots without mist, and to push the buds once budded. In this colder zone 9b climate, Fortuniana will not root for me as it doesn't get hot enough for it to push roots, nor does it receive enough heat to push scions once budded. I've had to limit my budding to Pink Clouds, which is half multiflora, because it doesn't require the heat levels Fortuniana does to root and push buds. I know Dr. Malcolm Manners at Florida Southern College has great success with Fortuniana in green houses and with mist, so you likely might need to create a mist propagator. Another friend in the Miami area also uses mist to root Fortuniana in their heat. I hope that helps.
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Hi Kim,
Great article!
Quick question: have you ever had an example of a grafted rootstock growing from a rose that had turned completely white and hasn't affected the rose that's grafted to it?
We were asked to evaluate a bush that had this particular anomaly. In all our years of growing roses, we have never seen this happen before. At this time, we are still unsure of what hybrid tea variety the rose is. However, we do know that this has been an ongoing issue with this specific bush for a period of about five years. Because we've done some DNA studies on roses, we know about rose mutation and rootstock diseases; but we're a bit surprised that the hybrid tea emanating from this rootstock is completely healthy. Any help you can give would be much appreciated!
Sherry Berglund and Julie Matlin
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Can I ask for clarification please Sherry and Julie.
Is it the rootstock leaves, stem and bloom that turned white?
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This is a very good and well written article on root stocks. Thank you for the information.
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Initial post
5 APR 15 by
Paz
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Hi Kim,
As Queen Elizabeth roots very easily do you think it would be a suitable rootstock for well maintained garden beds.. further more do you think QE2 climber would be better because of its greater vigour?
cheers
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