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'Gertrude Jekyll ®' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
14 APR 20 by
newtie
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I consider this rose to be David Austin's single most important introduction. This rose replaces the great Portland rose, Comte de Chambord. The latter is disease ridden in my hot humid climate. Not G.Jekyll however, which appears identical to C.de Chambord in every respect except vigor and disease resistance. G. Jekyll is outstanding here so long as it is pruned fairly heavily each year.
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#1 of 11 posted
14 APR 20 by
 Jay-Jay
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I'll try that pruning method over here, for it stays very lanky throughout the years with very few flowers.
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#2 of 11 posted
14 APR 20 by
newtie
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Cut it back quite hard this winter. Half to two thirds.
Fertilize it in the early spring. It should be covered in blooms next spring. But it has to be reasonably healthy to begin with. After it is going good you can settle for removing about 1/3 of the canes length each subsequent year. Wear a flack jacket and heavy leather gloves when you do this.
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#3 of 11 posted
15 APR 20 by
Jay-Jay
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Thank You for the advice.
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#4 of 11 posted
25 FEB 21 by
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#5 of 11 posted
26 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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Yes, I did. It flowered on eye-level, because of that... But we had a very dry growing and flowering season, so alas not much of a sea of flowers. Just a few.
My top soil is only 40-60cm above 5m of boulder-clay. No water comes from below.
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#6 of 11 posted
26 FEB 21 by
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#7 of 11 posted
26 FEB 21 by
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I would agree that it is one of if not the most important rose Austin introduced, but (at least in my experience) I have to say that it cannot replace Comte de Chambord in any way, as I find the two varieties to be quite different, even if vaguely similar. I grow both within about 15 feet of each other, so it is very easy to compare the two. I find that when kept as a small bush comparable in size to C.d.C, Gertrude Jekyll does not really perform very well and is actually inferior to the Portland, whereas she thrives when left to get large and 'frothy'. As I say, that is just what I have found. And Gertrude gets a similar amount of disease to C.d.C. here, if not more. Also, I don't really think that the perfume or the colour of the blooms is the same - similar, but not interchangeable. Both great, but different. Its like when Austin's claim in their catalogues that the English Roses could be said to have superseded the old Portland, H.P. and Bourbon classes - er, no...... sorry, but no they haven't. Because they are different, and that's that. The best thing of course, if you can and your climate suits such things, is to grow both! But I know not all climates suit Austins or Portlands, so I can see that you may have had a very different experience with them to what I have had. Its really interesting how roses can differ so much by simply being in different places.
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#9 of 11 posted
26 JUN 21 by
newtie
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My C.D.C is doing better than it ever has, despite the hellish hot humid summer here. Yet I can not detect much difference between Gertrude Jekyll and C.D.C. , other than the significantly better health (here in the humid deep south) of G.J. Your reporting that the color and perfume of these two roses differs significantly makes me wonder if we have the same roses. I really can't tell the difference between them other than in vigor and plant habit. The bloom and stems, covered with thorns, seem the same, but I may have missed some detail that a botanist would notice. I do find that under good nutrition that G. Jekyll does get large and "frothy" by Fall even after being cut back by about two-thirds in late January here. And it does bloom prolifically in Spring and Fall after it has been established for a couple years..
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Thanks for coming back with a follow up on this - I think its really interesting.
Well one possibility is that the Comte de Chambords that we have may be different I suppose? - there is the whole confusion about whether he is actually Mme Boll, so maybe that is it? Or maybe it is literally down to the climate, soil, position, etc.
When I say that I notice a difference, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that they are as different as say Gertude Jekyll compared to say Quatre Saison for an oldie or Mary Rose for an Austin - but I would be able to tell she and the Comte apart from the smell and shape alone I think.
When the weather turns and it stops raining later this week, I'll try and take a pic or two.
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What are your flower shapes like? My Comte has more of a cup shape to the middle, whereas my Gertrude is rarely like that, and usually a little more reflexed if anything. How about yours?
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My GJ is being very stingy. Last year (first full season) I tried to grow it as a shrub rose and it didn't produce a flush but once. This year, I decided to let it grow as a climber so I could bend the canes to get more blooms. It did the same thing as last year - It bloomed once in March and just grows and grows without producing more blooms.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. It's a fantastic rose when it's in bloom, but it's not repeating very well at all for me. Any idea what might be wrong?
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This rose never did well for me. However, last autumn I gave it a dressing of lime as my soil is rather acidic. I also gave it the absolute minimum of pruning. This year it is flowering better although because of the cool summers in my location it never grows more than 1 metre high, it is on laxa rootstock not 'Dr Huey'.
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Everett: I look over your pictures of roses in pots ... I see pale upper leaves, that's typical of ALKALINE tap water, like my hard-well water at pH 9. For that reason I use vinegar & ACIDIC sulfate of potash & gypsum to fix my alkaline-tap-water and to force Austin roses to repeat fast. See my HMF profile on fixing one's alkaline-tap-water.
Folks in rich-minerals clay-region report Gertrude Jekyll repeats well, if pruned & given enough fertilizer.
Andrew is right about liming if the soil is acidic. Calcium is the building blocks for leaves, stems, roots, and petals. If there's tons of acidic rain (pH 5.6 on the west coast, and near 4 in the East coast) ... that also leach out minerals necessary for blooming. Like my own-root Munstead Wood in a pot refused to bloom with low-nutrients-LOAMY potting soil & tons of acidic rain. But when I put Munstead Wood in my alkaline clay (rich in minerals), it's pumping out 20+ buds right now 7/6/17 for 2nd-flush. To make stingy Austin roses to repeat bloom, a high-dose fertilizer NPK 8-20-40, plus lime (for acidic soil), or gypsum (for alkaline soil). High potassium force roses to bloom. High phosphorus forces more branching, rather than one-cane wonder. Low nitrogen helps to cut down the tall octopus canes (if grafted on Dr.Huey). Credit & many thanks to Perpetua in Romania who shared with me NPK 8-20-40 as the secret to tons of blooms.
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Thank you for the tips! I think you might be right about the soil acidity. I suspect the cause is the run off water from the roof. This year, I've noticed is that all my plants that get a high dosage of run-off rainwater from the roof aren't very happy at all. I lost a baby own root plant earlier this year and almost lost two others. I had a Lady of Shallot in the same spot as the GJ in the picture you saw from last year, and it was having the same symptoms as well. It's not as not growing or blooming much at all either (which is unusual for LoS). I moved it and watered it well and within a week, it started growing again like crazy.
Since I can't move my GJ away from the wall (apartment manager will throw a fit), I'd like to try a fertilizer like the one you suggested. Do you have any suggestions on a brand with that ratio that I can use for potted roses? Will the high numbers burn the roots?
FYI, my local nursery sells Jack's Classic bloom booster (10-30-20). Would that be a good place to start?
Thanks again for your help!
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Your rose is growing in a container, don't forget that most roses, like Clematis, like to have their roots cool and moist.
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Everett: Just saw the pic. of your bush, looks good. I can tell the pH is acidic, from the smaller & spindly & thin canes. At slightly alkaline pH, there's more calcium & potassium & phosphorus for blooming. Just google "plant nutrients chart and pH level" and you'll see.
G.J. at Chicago Botanical Garden is pruned quite short (below my waist) but with more blooms than leaves. CBG has alkaline loamy soil (pH 7.4), and they recommend soluble fertilizer NPK 20-20-20 three times a year.
To force GJ to re-bloom: Any fertilizer LOW in nitrogen would do. Chemical nitrogen has acidifying action .. which makes the pH even lower with acidic rain. Dolomitic lime (calcium & magnesium, pH near 10) is expensive, a cheaper sub. is a 40 lbs. bag of pea-gravel (different colors) sold for $3 at local stores. Alkaline pea-gravel provide solid-minerals to neutralize acidic rain. In that assortment of colorful pea-gravel, the red/pink ones provide iron, the beige ones provide calcium, the gray ones provide magnesium .. but stay away from black-pea-gravel (high aluminum). Aluminum is toxic to roots.
The pea-gravel will neutralize acidic rain, plus provide solid minerals for blooming. Pea-gravel don't shoot up the pH like garden lime, it's a constant steady-release. If you have loamy/sandy soil, there's plenty of phosphorus, just need to aim for neutral pH (7) for phosphorus to be released. However, acidic rain does leach out calcium, potassium, and magnesium (in that order). Pea-gravel can add calcium & magnesium, but one still need potassium, either potassium chloride (very salty, but no acid), or potassium sulfate (sulfate of potash, 1/3 the salt, but with 21% sulfur). Only Amazon or Kelp4Less sell sulfate of potash, I like the sulfate of potash from Kelp4less better, it dissolves easily if sprinkle on the ground. Kelp4Less is free shipping. Years ago I posted a picture in HMF of Frederic Mistral going from 5 blooms per year to 40+ blooms in one flush, via sulfate of potash.
Potassium needs calcium and magnesium for best blooming. In hydroponic studies, the best ratio is 4:2:1:1, 4 part potassium, 2 part calcium, 1 part magnesium, and 1 part phosphorus. Rose tissue analysis done by University of CA at Davis showed similar ratio: twice more potassium than calcium, and much less magnesium and phosphorus. So either dolomitic lime (calcium & magnesium) or pea-gravel will help to activate sulfate of potash.
Also some Tomato-Tone (higher in potassium than Rose-Tone) will provide bacteria & mycorrhyzal fungi to help with phosphorus uptake. Espoma-Tomato tone is higher in calcium, sold for $10 for a HUGE bag at all stores (Walmart, HomeDepot, Lowe's). That has slow-released organic nitrogen, and doesn't lower pH like chemical nitrogen.
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Wow....you really know a lot! Thank you for taking the time to write that! I think the first thing I will do is test the soil, then use a low nitrogen fertilizer if needed. I'm gonna look into the pea gravel/kelp4less combo too.
As far as Tomato Tone goes, should I use the same amount as I would with Rose Tone?
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Where would one find 8/20/40 fertilizer?
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#8 of 30 posted
5 MAR 20 by
newtie
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Cut it back in winter to 3-4 feet. It will they put out new laterals, get bushier and bloom heavily. This rose likes to be cut back.
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Hi Newtie, are you pruning it as a big bush then, instead of a climber
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My experience was this, when I used David Austin rose food, everything changed! I was so surprised! Healthier leaves, more blooms...and you only have to sprinkle it on the soil,it waters itslf in. Prior, Ihad used Maxsea monthly. But ehat a difference the DA food made! And no, I am not a pusher. Lol
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#11 of 30 posted
20 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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Even though, You're not a pusher. It sounds a bit to me as a conditional sale or tying practice... when the Austins only perform well on Austin's fertilizer.
As a climber, this rose gets spindly legs and only flowers sparsely at the end of the canes is my experience.
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You may be right! I was just thrilled to find something that worked. I had a carding mill just failing and the food helped it enormously. The tricky part was last year they ran out of the food! So this year I bought extra early on so that I did not end up in that position. I’m also trying volcanic ash on some other roses just to see if that works. Always an experiment, right?
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#13 of 30 posted
20 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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What is a karting mill? I know what a carding mill is and used that, before spinning and twining wool.
Volcanic ash seems to me in use a bit hazardous for ones lungs. I use lava grit or lava meal for that purpose.
Or do You use it too smother the aphids too?
And about my remark... I meant it most of the part as a joke. Some Austins just do not perform well everywhere on/in the world and even Austin ruled out a lot of their older varieties and do not promote or sell those anymore.
At least some of the Austins perform well in my garden as for instance Constance Spry, the Mary Rose (and its mutations), Abraham Darby and A Shropshire Lad. The most perform in good years reasonably. Some perform bad: Evelyn and Gertrude Jekyll are among those.
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Ooops carding mill....my bad... I wore a mask when I use the powder because it was kind of freaky. It’s called AZOMITE. And I decided to buy it and granular form after having the powder. It’ll be interesting to see as a sort of science experiment about whether it works or not. I have the Poet’s wife, the pilgrim, and Boscobel coming in. Our Rose Society had the lady who is the representative for David Austin the United States present for us. And she talked about how they have retired some because they’ve learned overtime that they were not top performers. So that was kind of fun to hear that directly from DA themselves. I’ve only been gardening for six years, and I will say that there’s just some roses that don’t work in my garden. For example I can’t get Mr. Lincoln or fragrant cloud to be disease resistant in my garden at all! They flower, but their leaves are horrible. It may have something to do with the fact that I am totally organic too. Oh, my Mary Rose was terribly unhappy...but the area got shaded by my mermaid,so, I moved Mary to a highsun place in a pot and hoping for the best. I give them two years...trouble? They are out! Lol
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Mr. Lincoln is prone to black spot in my area, so the foliage is often rubbish, but the plant is tough enough to keep going anyway. Best idea with Lincoln, IMO, is to plant it somewhere out of the way and just use it for cutting, and/or to plant more aesthetically pleasing things around it.
(I'm not fanatical about organic, but hardly ever spray things.)
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#26 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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#16 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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#17 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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- What means "IMO". First time ever, I see this abbreviation.
- "Our Rose Society had the lady who is the representative for David Austin the United States present for us. And she talked about how they have retired some because they’ve learned overtime that they were not top performers." Some of those retirees perform amazing. Take f.i. a look at: helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.34260
Combined with what was there originally in my HMF inbox:
"But the trademark ran out. So they discredit the old and push new stuff. IMO."
I heard the latter too from a seller and official propagator of Austin Roses.
When one reads the catalogues of Austin, this years' varieties are the best ever...
Most of the time no lineage and as for appearance maybe no improvement of the older varieties.
Maybe another new path of crossing and breeding might be desired?
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IMO = In my opinion
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#19 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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#21 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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I notice that, after going on a wild ride with nicknames, you're back to being veilchenblau. It was exciting while it lasted. :)
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#27 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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It probably should be NMM for you. You could start using NMM just to wind up the Anglos. ;)
(naar mijn mening, if the translator is correct.)
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#24 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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#25 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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The translator is correct, but the "short for" (afkorting) isn't common.
And luckily I had my caffeine today.
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#20 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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Well damn damn. Bummer.
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#29 of 30 posted
22 FEB 21 by
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#30 of 30 posted
23 FEB 21 by
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Hello from the sunny shores of Ireland ;-) . Just planted 14 climbers and numerous shrub roses. Trying to swot and have been visiting here for over a year and learned a lot. I couldn't have designed this little garden without the detailed help on this site.
One biggie for me is the advice on pruning Gertrude Jekyl. I've read various advice here to cut her back etc. Yet everything else Ive read is that you don't prune the main canes back on climbers, certainly prune the laterals, crossing canes, old and diseased canes. I'm assuming that if I cut a main cane back then it'll produce laterals and in that event do I select one and allow it to become a main cane while pruning the other laterals.
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Hi, basically yes - a lateral can be trained and used as a structural (main) cane, with more laterals then growing off that cane in subsequent seasons.
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Thank you for answering my question.
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#3 of 4 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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Ok thanks I'll bear that in mind
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John Nieuwesteeg, a rose nurseryman for decades, has decided that this rose is Gertrude Jekyll.
Mine hasn't set hips.
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When you see some hips and are happy with that identification, let us know and we will merge the files.
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OK. I’ll merge “Von Doussa Children” with Gertrude Jekyll. Are you happy with that Petera?
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