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'Souvenir du Docteur Jamain' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 109-936
most recent 12 APR HIDE POSTS
Initial post 11 APR by Nastarana
from Sackville-West, V., The Illustrated Garden Book, Atheneum New York 1989 (A selection of her popular columns by the historian Robin Lane Fox). Her description of finding SdDJ can be found on p.128.

" 'Souvenir du Docteur Jamain' is an old hybrid perpetual which I am rather proud of having rescued from extinction. I found him growing against the office wall of an old nursery. No one knew what he was; no one seemed to care; no one knew his name; no one had troubled to propagate him. Could I dig him up, I asked? Well, if you like to risk it, they said, shrugging their shoulders; it's a very old plant, with a woody stiff root. I risked it; 'Docteur Jamain' survived his removal; and now has a flourishing progeny in my garden and also on the market of certain rosarians to whom I gave him. 'Dr. Jamain' is a deep red, not very large flowers, but so sweetly and sentimentally scented."
Reply #1 of 2 posted 12 APR by Patricia Routley
Thanks Nastarana. I've added the 1968 text, rather than the 1989. It is basically the same.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 12 APR by Nastarana
I wonder who first identified Sackville-West's foundling? Would that have been Graham Thomas?
Discussion id : 99-048
most recent 6 MAY 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 6 MAY 17 by zztop
How does this rose do in zone 6a? Does it get tall and put out long canes or does it make a short shrub?
Reply #1 of 2 posted 6 MAY 17 by Jay-Jay
At my place(zone 6a/b), it's a slow grower. It stands in the preferred partial shade.
No long canes and a lanky grower. I train it as a small climber. Length of the canes after 5 years: 2m.
Flowers are wonderful dark-red and have a good and strong, but delicate fragrance.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 6 MAY 17 by zztop
Thanks! 2 meters of cane is really not that bad for this climate.
Discussion id : 89-307
most recent 15 NOV 15 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 15 NOV 15 by Rosewood_Roses
This rose is similar to "Pulich Children", and may be synonymous. This awaits genetic testing.
Discussion id : 45-257
most recent 29 DEC 13 SHOW ALL
Initial post 29 MAY 10 by marjan
Gascony France
fantastic rose, does very well for me, climbing a pillar in a shady spot with just some morning sun.
Her colour is the most impressive of all the roses i grow

However i have noticed since i have grown her, which is only 3 years, that her blooms seem to fade very quickly, they just sort of dry/crumple and take their leave...
Could this possibly be because she finds it too dark and gets too little sun?
Reply #1 of 12 posted 29 MAY 10 by Jay-Jay
You wrote in Your journal it is standing on a very wet spot with too much water in the ground in the winter, because the level of the ground around your house is lower than the surroundings. It might be that some part of the roots of this rose rot in the wintertime. So it might be that in the growing season they can't deliver enough water for the size it has above ground. Isn't it possible to drain the ground? Or else cut the rose back in spring by 1/3.
Reply #2 of 12 posted 30 MAY 10 by marjan
thanks jay jay. yes could well be. i will try cutting her back next spring as dr Jamain flowers on new growth anyway. The drainage solution isnt a viable one, i have a drainage system in place already, only so much i can do here.
Reply #3 of 12 posted 30 MAY 10 by Jay-Jay
Marjan, before drainage works properly it takes some years, so maybe it's gonna work for you in some time from now. Or else you can replace this rose "Souvenir du Docteur Jamain" on a better spot. Good luck, Jay-Jay.
Reply #4 of 12 posted 1 APR 12 by Alex Stepanov
Hello, jay jay! This is my problem too, with too much water in the ground in the winter and especially in spring. It's because I plant and do roses on beds so they are above of ground level. In marjan's case I would first of all try to pull the plant out and make a rising ground for it. If it doesn't help, I would replace the plant on a better spot, so as you wrote, but on a rise too. Drainage is IMHO too globally and hardly to realize within a small area and if done incorrectly could cause harm to the owner and neighbors. And I agree with you that drainage begins to work properly after some years.
Reply #5 of 12 posted 1 APR 12 by bungalow1056
I also grow Dr Jamain. We have dense clay soils in my growing region and good drainage is often an issue. I have had great success by heavily amending my soil with composted organic matter and semi-finely shredded tree bark then planting 28-40 cm above the natural soil line. I feed my Jamain heavily. He also gets a substantial amount of sun, 8-10 hours. This is perfect in spring and fall when the days are just right and not too long. In the heat and extended sun of summer, his blooms tend to lighten and pass a little more quickly.
Reply #6 of 12 posted 13 JUL 12 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Regarding what you wrote, Bungalow - it's the best way to fix heavy clay soil. I have sticky clay soil: I tried everything: peat moss, alfalfa meal, grass clippings, pine fines, horse manure (with straw and wood chips) - they glue back within a year. Finally I layered coarse sand and coarse pine nuggets ... these take longer to decompose, and fluffed up my clay. My roses in raised bed do much better.
Reply #11 of 12 posted 29 DEC 13 by Michael Garhart
Huge bags of perlite are really cheap at Home Depot. I use those in troublesome spots.
Reply #12 of 12 posted 29 DEC 13 by Jay-Jay
I swear by good old home-made compost mixed through the top soil and let the earthworms do the trick and drain the soil.
Reply #7 of 12 posted 13 JUL 12 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
This was entered twice. So I deleted it.
Reply #8 of 12 posted 14 JUL 12 by Lyn G
A friend, who also has drainage issues due to the water table being quite high and having clay soil which wicks up moisture gave me an idea to use in what I call my "bed-of-death". She planted moisture thirsty plants near her roses. Since plants compete for moisture, the plants that by nature are more thirsty grab the moisture first leaving the soil around the roses dryer.

My "bed-of-death" is a raised planter bed that the previous owner of my home installed and doesn't drain well at all to the point of actually killing anything planted there. Using my friend's method of moisture control, I am planting tall water thirsty plants at the back of the bed. Since I don't want a climbing rose in that location, I have chosen to build a low raised bed to place over the bed-of-death and will plant my smallest miniature and micro minis in that bed.

The water thirsty plants will be watered when I water the raised bed and the soil won't sour, but those plants won't die because they want all of that water and the smaller roses planted in the shallow raised bed will not need to anchor themselves in the soil of that planter.

My friend's idea seems adaptable to many drainage issues in a garden.

Just a thought.

Reply #9 of 12 posted 15 JUL 12 by marjan
isn't it funny how we all find different solutions for these thorny ' problems.
i have since i first wrote decided to go another way, i took out all the good soil which i had used to fill in the very big rose holes, which the excavators dug out for me when we were building the house, and replaced that with a mix of the good old clay and only very little of the compost and small pebbles , as they dont do grit here, it seemed such a shame to get all that good soil out., but the effect had been of a manmade through which filled with water and didnt drain, a clay pot in effect!
so by adding a lot more clay back this problem seems to have been solved.
i live and learn - every day in this garden

smiles back Lyn et all.
Reply #10 of 12 posted 15 JUL 12 by Lyn G

You are going to laugh .... I am gardening in glacier slurry. What you describe is exactly what the whole of my garden area where I have planted my roses is like ! Digging rose holes in glacier slurry, even when it is moist, requires either a jack hammer or a much younger laborer. My biggest problem, even tho' I put in the proper drains ... more hard labor ... is the water sometimes runs from rose hole to rose and I have to dig things up again to correct the drainage. I hate the stuff ! It does drain well and is good for the roses in the high temps of my summer, but I still hate it.

We all learn as we garden. I moved to a new climate and felt like nothing I had learned in the past applied and I had to start learning all over again.

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