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'Ann Elizabeth' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 92-850
most recent 10 JUN 16 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 19 MAY 16 by Michael Garhart
A really important parent rose, hidden in a lot of important lineages. I have never seen a photo of this rose or this rose itself. Based on the breeder, the lineages, the time, and the types of color that came out of this rose, I am guessing it is 'Mary' x 'Queen Elizabeth'.

The primary reasons for this guess, is because it is responsible for both great own-root vigor (unusual for this era) in its descendants, the general bushiness of its descendants, and the strength and clarity of color in its descendants. Also an unusual trait.
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Reply #1 of 15 posted 20 MAY 16 by HMF Admin
Your post has given us an idea. Where a parentage is not know it might be helpful to record a duly noted (!) educated guess.
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Reply #2 of 15 posted 20 MAY 16 by Michael Garhart
That is up to you guys. They're just my personal musings as a breeder.

In this case, I was pondering why roses like 'Livin Easy' and 'Vera Dalton' hybrids have exceptional rooting ability, when compared to others of their type from the same time. So, the question for me was, "Why are the descendants of 'Ann Elizabeth' producing this positive trait, and what exactly is this unknown entity?"
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Reply #3 of 15 posted 20 MAY 16 by HMF Admin
Surely an interesting addition to allow for qualified suppositions for others to ponder. Not a high priority though as we're really behind on our current enhancement list.
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Reply #4 of 15 posted 20 MAY 16 by Michael Garhart
Whatever works best for you guys :] I'm happy to HMF is here.
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Reply #5 of 15 posted 20 MAY 16 by Jay-Jay
Might Harkness eventually be able to shine a light on its' parentage? For Harkness bred with this rose.
PS: I was so bold, to take the liberty to send them a message about this parentage topic and asked them if they know or are able to look it up in their archives.
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Reply #6 of 15 posted 20 MAY 16 by Michael Garhart
That would be really awesome. I don't know European etiquette very well, so I don't know where the line is. It is quite plausible that not even Harkness knew, but also possible, since a lot of UK breeders "shared" proprietary seedlings a lot.
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Reply #7 of 15 posted 20 MAY 16 by Jay-Jay
Albert Norman bred some roses for them like Ena Harkness and Eva Harkness... So there might be a little bit of a glimpse of a chance. A Dutch saying says translated: "When You don't shoot, You always miss" (Niet geschoten altijd mis)

The year, that this rose was introduced is so long ago, that even a lot of secret services-files are public now.
I hope, that they'll respond to my inquiry.
I wrote to them too, that there was a topic on this rose on HMF right now. And suggested, that if they knew or could recover from their archives the parentage, that they might post it themselves.
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Reply #8 of 15 posted 31 MAY 16 by Jay-Jay
Mr. Peter Harkness wrote to me and gave permission, to post his reaction on HMF:

"Dear J.J.

I've looked up the records we have, but cannot find the parentage of Ann Elizabeth. Mr Norman sent it to Jack saying it would be a useful pink partner for Frensham - his highly successful red floribunda. I have looked through those of Mr Norman's letters to Bill and Jack Harkness that survive, but they do not help.

If anything does come to light I will be in touch.

With best wishes

Peter Harkness"
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Reply #9 of 15 posted 31 MAY 16 by HMF Admin
Thanks Jay-Jay. It's participation like this that make HMF such a useful resource.
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Reply #10 of 15 posted 2 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
Wow, amazing! Thank you. Is it rude to ask if they have old photos, even black and white photos, of Ann Elizabeth? Even black and white abstracts.
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Reply #11 of 15 posted 3 JUN 16 by Jay-Jay
I do not know , if Mr. Harkness would consider that rude, for I can't look inside his head, but when he sends me some more info (in case that would be dug up), I'll ask him.

How come, that You're so particularly interested in THIS rose Michael?
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Reply #12 of 15 posted 3 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
From a breeding perspective, its a really important parent. It lines up with a lot of roses that hit the right marks much later on in lineages. Livin' Easy is a prime example.
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Reply #13 of 15 posted 3 JUN 16 by Jay-Jay
Thank You Michael.
Especially the rose You mentioned wasn't living that easy in our garden and died.
It didn't like it over here, or I got a dud from the nursery.
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Reply #14 of 15 posted 3 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
Interesting. Its a weed here, so to speak, but my climate is similar to the UK and Japans, so it's not surprising that it does.
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Reply #15 of 15 posted 10 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
I did find a photo in my copy of 'The Ultimate Rose Book'. Its a very clear, dark coral pink. Open type bloom. Looks nice and clear for that era, where a lot of floribundas looked sort of muddy. No foliage photo, however.

I had wondered why roses like Southampton, Alexander, and Bobby Dazzler became the cornerstones of a lot of roses that came from the UK. And in turn gave a lot of color elsewhere in the world. There were a ton of "vermillion" roses of that era. Everyone had their own take on Tropicana, Floradora, etc. I know mildew was a major issue until the 1990s. Something about Ann Elizabeth just struck me as very important.
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Discussion id : 18-847
most recent 17 MAY 07 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 17 MAY 07 by maggie hughes
how do I find a source of the Rose veriety Ann Elizabeth?
Is it still in commercial circulation?
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