HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Minnie Francis' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 74-940
most recent 9 MAR SHOW ALL
Initial post 4 NOV 13 by Patricia Routley
What colour is "chamois-red" as in the 1926 reference. A chamois, to me, is yellow.
From the one photo I have seen, the colour of 'Minnie Francis' is red.
Reply #1 of 10 posted 4 NOV 13 by Jay-Jay
Chamois is also a kind of woven silk fabric. Maybe is meant silky, or silk-like red? Like velvety red.
Reply #2 of 10 posted 4 NOV 13 by Patricia Routley
Thanks Jay-Jay. That explains it. I'll change the colour of 'Minnie Francis' from "yellow, deep pink shading" to red. (It looked brick-red to me, but then, bricks come in all sorts of colours, don't they.)
Reply #3 of 10 posted 4 NOV 13 by Jay-Jay
Yup! =>
Reply #4 of 10 posted 5 NOV 13 by Patricia Routley
Aah Jay-Jay. wish that I could. Copying and pasteing that address never works for me. Don't know what I do wrong, but I might look further into it one long languid afternoon when I need something to do. Am running too fast this glorious spring to even contemplate investigating.
My regards.
Reply #5 of 10 posted 6 NOV 13 by Jay-Jay
Sent You an e-mail with the direct link.
Reply #6 of 10 posted 8 MAR by scvirginia
I was also puzzled by chamois-red, but that phrase is also used to describe 'Charles de Legrady', which is also described as carmine. So I have changed the description to carmine-pink, and added the crimson shading from the references.

I also added a note at the description page about "chamois red" before I noticed this discussion.

Patricia, do you recall where you saw a color photo/illustration? I'd love to see it since I'm wondering if my NOID pink Tea could be a long-lost 'Minnie Francis'. The buds & bloom look the part in the (not-very-clear) b&w photo I found.

Reply #7 of 10 posted 8 MAR by Patricia Routley
If the very early references say "chamois red", I think it best if we retain this colour in the description, rather than in a Note. You can actually add this colour in the section: Additional Color & Bloom Description English:
I have added a few more references for 'Minnie Francis' but they are meagre.
The photo is in Trevor Griffth's 1983 book and I will upload this as it is in the interests of research and I hope that will be okay.
On one of my visits to New Zealand I made the following note:

Trevor Griffiths Rose Garden – Monday, December 19, 2005 (2nd visit)
Later in the day – stopping to have lunch and looking at the bed planting list for this bed.
The listing shows: Baby Faurax – not there; Dorothy Howarth – in situ; Paul Crampel – in situ; Nypels Perfection – in situ; White Cecile Brunner – in situ. Kathleen Mills (a pale pink HT) – not there; Archiduke Charles – not there; Princesse de Sagan – in situ; General Schablikine – in situ; Lady Hillingdon – in situ.. Lilac Charm – in situ; Minnie Francis (a red tea) – not there.

I also had a look at the New Zealand Rose Register which shows it as once growing at Trevor Griffiths nursery, However, it is not listed as growing elsewhere in New Zealand.
Reply #8 of 10 posted 8 MAR by scvirginia
I didn't add "chamois red" to the description because I found it confusing. Like you, I assumed that chamois just meant yellow. I still have no idea why that term was used to describe anything that was pink, so didn't plan to perpetuate the confusion?

I had no idea that 'Minnie' had made it to NZ; I figured her distribution was limited to the southern U.S. Is it likely that a rose might get imported to NZ, but not to Australia?

If you can upload the photo, I look forward to seeing it.

Reply #9 of 10 posted 9 MAR by Patricia Routley
.....Is it likely that a rose might get imported to NZ, but not to Australia?

Yes. it is possible. Griffiths exchanged wood with Ross Roses in Australia but I haven't read of 'Minnie Francis' in Australia and I haven't indexed Ross' old catalogues. Billy Teabag might be able to help you further on any sign of it in Australia. Margaret Furness once found something ("Hackney workman's cottage") that reminded her of Griffiths' photo, but I don't think that one survived some tenants non-care.

Daphne Whitfort-Smith, from New Zealand, wrote in the Heritage Roses in Australia journal 30-2-19 in her article on Trevor Griffiths:
In 1968 there was a month-long nurseryman's tour of California
In 1972 the first batch of budwood arrived from the Thomasville Nursery in Georgia, USA.
In 1974 Tillotson's Roses in California, later known as Roses of Yesterday and Today, sent budwood in 1974.
(I have just quickly looked through most of the Roses of Yesterday and Today that I have from that period and cannot see it listed)
Reply #10 of 10 posted 9 MAR by scvirginia
Thanks, Patricia. That rose was certainly under my radar until recently, but it stayed in commerce for quite a long stretch, which does make me think there are probably still some plants around. Of course, 1968 was 50 years ago... how time does fly.

Thanks so much for uploading the photo. It looks very much like my foundling with the strongly veined deep pink petals, and buds with sepals just like the bud in the bottom right corner...

© 2018