HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'R. wichuraiana' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 114-989
most recent 21 JAN HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 18 JAN by CybeRose
I have been reading Crépin's discussion of Rosa wichuraiana and R. luciae. He makes it clear that R. wichuraiana is a ground-hugging, sprawling species that doesn't do UP. To the contrary, R. luciae and R. multiflora start as bushes or shrubs, and apparently need some external stimulus to trigger the climbing habit.

I have observed this phenomenon in R. multiflora, naturalized in Tennessee, as well as in the native R. setigera. The plants remain short and bushy when growing in the open, but "take flight" (so to speak) when there is a tree nearby.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 6 posted 18 JAN by Jay-Jay
I grow R. wichuraiana too. And despite nearby oaks and hazelnuts, it stays over the years (as You described) "ground-hugging" and doesn't reach for the stars.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 6 posted 18 JAN by CybeRose
Jay-Jay,
That's what I would expect. It does horizontal, but not vertical. I had one, years ago, that insinuated itself through my lawn. When I finally discovered it, I had a heck of a time getting it out.

If you had R. luciae, according to Crépin, it would remain a bush/shrub until it bumped into a fence or tree that would give it a "leg up".
Karl
REPLY
Reply #3 of 6 posted 19 JAN by Jay-Jay
I planned it as a thick thicket, to ward of astray strangers from our garden. It can endure a lotta shade.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 6 posted 19 JAN by CybeRose
I saw R. wichuraiana var. poteriifolia growing at the San Jose Heritage garden. Now, THAT would give stray visitors second thoughts ... and third thoughts. Dense, twiggy and mean looking.

I had a small specimen of it in a pot. The darned thing somehow managed to snag me whenever I got near it. I thought I was being careful, but it got to me anyway. Finally, I cut it back to stumps. It promptly opened a few blooms - in December - just to taunt me.

It is no wonder that Wichuraiana hybrids are so durable and carefree. I saw them (double pink and double red) in numerous places in Tennessee, growing beside the roads, or hanging over cliffs. No care required.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 6 posted 20 JAN by jedmar
I wonder whether the Wichurana hybrids of Barbier are not all Luciae-Hybrids
REPLY
Reply #6 of 6 posted 21 JAN by CybeRose
Jedmar,
We are getting into the Lumper/Splitter dispute. Crépin consulted with Franchet, and they agreed that Crépin's Rosa wichuraiana was a form of R. luciae. However, after much further study of other specimens, Crépin concluded that Multiflora, Luciae and Wichuraiana are distinct, despite the apparent overlap. Therefore, we get to choose whether we call a trailing specimen with very glossy leaves Rosa luciae Franch. & Rochebr. or R. wichuraiana Crép.

I am familiar with only three of Barbier's hybrids. 'François Foucard' (my favorite), 'Paul Noël' and 'François Juranville'. The first two were growing in full sun, and sent out wiry canes that sprawled along the ground like R. wichuraiana. I didn't pay as much attention to 'François Juranville' because it was in a less favorable setting.

I'm still trying to figure out the heredity of the climbing/creeping habit. Environmental conditions may be involved in triggering the change from shrub to climber. I am trying to learn whether two species that rely on different conditions might yield hybrids that don't need either. And so they would start out as "climbers" that have no choice but to sprawl.
REPLY
© 2019 HelpMeFind.com