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'Rosa borbonica' rose Reviews & Comments
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Under what reference is this rose deemed tetraploid? I've seen it frequently listed as triploid. I can find sources to add.
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I'm puzzled by the synonym on the description page for 'Gloire de France' (bourbon, Hardy, 1822).
I don't see a reference to support this nomenclature. I do see an 1838 reference saying that Hardy received seeds of 'Rose Edouard' in 1822, but am having trouble locating any non-American references to a Bourbon called 'Gloire'(or Gloria) de France'. What am I missing?
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#1 of 4 posted
25 AUG by
jedmar
Buist and several others were stating that 'Gloire de France' is a synonym of 'Mme Neumann' resp. 'Dubreuil'
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Buist was ahead of his time with his efforts to 'streamline' nomenclature by declaring many similar roses as synonyms.
To be fair, though, the roses sent to him in the U.S. may have been more likely to be mislabeled than roses sent out within Europe and the UK.
But back to my question, we aren't saying that 'Rose Edouard'- by any name- was sent out by Hardy in 1822, are we?
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#3 of 4 posted
27 AUG by
jedmar
Hardy's own catalogue of 1837 equates his Bengale Centfeuilles of 1821 with Bengale Dubreuil (1822) and Bengale Neumann. The first rose would be the source of Buist's statement that Hardy introduced Rose Edouard in 1822. However, some of these seem to have been seeds of Rose Edouard, not the original plant.
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I guess I agree with Buist about this one, and am inclined to think 'Dubreuil', 'Neumann' and 'Centfeuilles' are probably the same. I don't know where 'Edward'/ 'Edouard'/ 'Île de France' fits in, but it seems to have been less double than 'Dubreuil'/ 'Neumann', etc.
Was there one clone or variety commonly found on Île de France (now Mauritius), and another, related rose found on Île de Bourbon (now Réunion)? Or were they found in one location or the other or both?
Either way, I think India is probably the source of both these proto-Bourbon roses, and it's suggestive that at least two governors of Pondichery went on to become governors of Île de Bourbon/ La Réunion, probably bringing along some plants and/or gardeners with them.
The name 'Edouard' was not one of the earliest names in the references, and I would love to know why the cultivators in Île de France called it 'Edward', as reported by Prevost. Do we have any idea of who Edward (or Edwards) was?
I think Rivers heard about 'Rose Edwards', and automatically assumed that the name had been anglicized, and should be 'Edouard', but there were examples of people from the British Isles finding religious or political refuge- and attaining high positions- in both the royal and Republican governments of France.
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Speede, Indian Handbook of Gardening (1840) wrote: In Europe they number from a thousand to fifteen hundred varieties; of the rose in India, the cultivated sorts are limited to the Madras rose, the rose Edward, the sweet scented Bussorah rose, (red and white) the Persian rose, the sweet briar, the many‑flowered rose, (a climber,) the China rose, (red and damask,) and the dog rose (growing wild); the moss rose may be found to exist, but has not, it is believed, been yet known to blossom in India.
In his 1848 revised edition he identified the Madras Rose as Rosa centifolia, which would be the Monthly Rose (Damask). His Rosa damascena is called the China Damask.
He identified the very double but scentless Persian Rose as Rosa collina. I don't know why.
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According to Fusée Aublet (vol 2, 1775), the first specimen of Rosa bifera was imported to Mauritius (l'Isle-de-France) from Brazil by M. Kerguelin "a few years ago." Aublet was able to propagate this rose. "I had, in the space of eighteen months or two years, palisades, hedges of this Rosebush which gave me enough flowers for various medicines, needed by the Hospital de l'Isle and the Company's vessels."
Aublet arrived on the island in 1752. He left in 1762 and in the same year went to French Guiana.
In vol 1, Aublet noted that the rose was transported from Para to Caïenne. [Pará is a State of Brazil]
I had never imagined such a round-about route.
And on this general theme, the earliest mention I have found of 'Parsons' Pink China' was as R. bengalensis in the catalogue of J. J. Saint Germaine (1784). This raises the possibility that 'Old Blush' reached France from China by way of India, and then through either Reunion or Mauritius.
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