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"Whatley Crescent" rose Reviews & Comments
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Would those who grow "Whatley Crescent" please check the references for 'Southport' 1930.
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I see what you mean Patricia. At last a rose with around the right number of petals.
The only thing I can find that doesn't fit is the suggestion that it is a fairly prickly plant (Dawson's nursery catalogue "inclined to be thorny.")
From my quick run through the refs, this is the only complaint I've spotted about prickles and apart from "red spines" in an early ref., the prickles don't get a mention.
References to fragrance are variable. If "Whatley Crescent" is 'Southport', that would fit as sometimes it has quite a strong fragrance and other times you have to work hard to find much.
I wish there was a patent document for this rose with a detailed description we could get our teeth into.
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The 1944 p43 reference also talks of thorns. But I recall Karl, years ago, talking of how a rose bush can change its ability to produce thorns, or not. There is also the height - 'Southport' started off life taller than it seemed to end up. I never really checked the books on my bookshelf, so there may be more available, but I will leave it with you. My plant of "Whatley Crescent" is too small to show its true characteristics and I want to explore more 'President Macia' 1933 for "Birte Venske's No. 13" in my next bit of free time.
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John N independently has suggested Southport for "Whatley Cres" - he hasn't grown Southport but a book description matches well.
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John’s opinion is highly valued. Is he growing “Whatley Crescent”? I hope he can avail himself, these days, of the 48 references in the ‘Southport’ file.
I am turning away from my suggestion of ‘Southport’ because Hazlewood in 1934 hinted at it being a pernetiana, but he didn’t elaborate on why he thought so. There are also the 1944-p43 and 1945 references to ‘Southport’ being thorny, as pernetianas mostly are. ‘Southport’s pollen parent was a pernetiana.
Billy’s photo of the original tall bush doesn’t look like a pernetiana to me. Neither does her photo of the pedicels - a pernetiana pedicel is usually prickly.
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John took budwood of many of the HTs and Pernetianas at Ruston's, while we still could.
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But did he take, and is he growing “Whatley Crescent”?
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Yes, he compared what he was growing with a book description. Ill ask him which book next week.
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Wonderful. I wouldn’t worry him about which book, rather ask about any other possibilities that the rose may be. And does he see the ruffled or wavy-edged petals that both Billy and I have seen in spring. If he sees it then it is likely a reviewer/writer may have mentioned this trait in early publications.
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Could you also ask John how prickly his plant is?
The plant in our garden doesn’t have many prickles and the parent plant was the same.
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#10 of 10 posted
11 APR 21 by
petera
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I got a plant from John N. yesterday. It is not particularly prickly and what prickles there are tend to be fairly slender. I could post pictures next growing season when it is in ground and, with any luck, growing.
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This red rose, "Whatley Crescent", recently threw a sport from the base. The sporting bloom was pink, somewhat like 'Briarcliff' (which was a sport of Columbia). I apologise that I was running a bit too fast to stop and take a photo, but I am now wondering if the red "Whatley Crescent" could be 'Red Columbia', 1920.
Later edit. Probably not feasible because so far, I cannot find 'Red Columbia' entering Australia.
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#1 of 5 posted
21 JUN 18 by
 HubertG
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Is 'Warrior' from Paul 1906 worth considering? It was a winter flowering tea-like HT.
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#2 of 5 posted
15 MAY 20 by
HubertG
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I'm wondering if this might be Alister Clark's 1941 'Keepsake'. The descriptions match quite well in general, it was nearly thornless, the era is right for the house, and there's even a reference to it growing in Perth. Since 'Keepsake' was a seedling from the winter flowering Tea 'Anne Leygues' yet also has obvious characteristics of a Hybrid Tea (colour, velvet, fragrance) presumably from its pollen parent, it could explain why "Whatley Crescent" has some characteristics of both. Maybe this is wishful thinking but it may be worth considering.
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#3 of 5 posted
15 MAY 20 by
HubertG
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And a bit of online sleuthing shows that W. G. Randell, who provided the "Perth garden" description of 'Keepsake' in the 1943 Australian Rose Annual was the garden writer for The Western Mail known by the pseudonym 'Geum', and he in fact lived during the 1940s in First Avenue, Mt. Lawley, only one block away from Whatley Crescent!
Does anyone happen to have the list of Alister Clark roses that Mr Randell describes in the 1943 article?
As a garden writer for a newspaper for over a decade he must have been influential.
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He wrote of Bright Boy, Busybody, Diana Allen, Jean Renton, Lady Huntingfield, Lady Mann, Sir Arthur Streeton, Zara Hore Ruthven,
Of red roses, he wrote of Lady Miller (dark red), Billy Boiler (red), Cecile Mann (an incurved red), Herbert Brunning, Keepsake (deep red single to semi-double), Lorna Anderson (magenta red), Marie Greene (red), A. G. Furness (red) and Lady Fraser (deep cherry red). I would have added all these references to HelpMeFind.
From vague memory, years ago I found the current owner of this house, a Perth gardening journalist. She reported there were no roses in the garden when she arrived.
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#5 of 5 posted
16 MAY 20 by
HubertG
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Thanks; that's quite a few. I assume that the Perth garden W. G. Randell is writing about is his own, but maybe not. A quick look on satellite maps shows that Mr. Randell's property is now simply lawns and a few magnolias. No roses. Still, it's tempting to think that these later Clark introductions might be surviving somewhere in Perth.
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I have added a photo of the pink sport of "Whatley Crescent"
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How very special Patricia. It's a lovely colour.
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Compare the ruffled and indented petals on a young plant of Clark's Mrs Albert Nash. I've posted more photos, but see my older photos with hips (which don't match well) and a bud. In my garden it became chlorotic and suckered on its own roots. I think I donated it to Carrick Hill.
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That's very interesting isn't it? It's not the same rose but it's very similar.
It would be handy to know what went into the breeding of 'Mrs Albert Nash'.
I have seen those indented petal edges on a number of Alister Clark roses at times - eg Restless - and they never look as though they are the result of damage but of some variation of expression.
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