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'Pierre Arditi ®' rose Reviews & Comments
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Rose Listing Omission
Subzero
White, strong fragrance, 1.5m
Ref: www.wagnersrosenursery.com.au/collections/2024-new-releases/products/subzero
Reply #1 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Johno, I presume this is a Meilland Rose?
Reply #2 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberJohno
I would not make this assumption as Wagner's Roses has recently increased the number of firms it has taken on, being agents now for Delbard, Brundrett, Barni and David Austin.
Reply #3 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
I assumed, because the Victorian Racing Club website had an article on “Subbie and Graham” and have added a bit on the bottom:
“A brilliant white rose bred specifically for the Salisbury Subzero Memorial Rose Garden by Kim Syrus of Corporate Roses in South Australia.”
Reply #4 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberMargaret Furness
It would be nice to find the breeder's code for these new roses. And for Lady of the House.
Reply #5 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Agree. The code for ‘Lady of the House’ is MASasch.
Reply #6 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberMargaret Furness
Thanks Patricia. I tried to track that down earlier, without success.
Reply #7 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Me too. But Knight’s Roses is now listing the ‘Lady of the House’ code and we can thank Jedmar for finding that.
Reply #8 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberJohno
With that bit of information, it is a very good assumption to make.
Lady of the House was kept under the wraps for a long time and as far as I know you can still only purchase direct from the charity.
Reply #9 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Another assumption - MEIfaissel ?
Reply #10 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberMargaret Furness
I don't think Wagner's would introduce the same rose under two names. (MEIfassel Introduced in Australia by Wagner's Rose Nursery in 2016 as 'Brilliance'.)
Reply #11 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
But Corporate Roses (agent for Meilland) could have given the white MEIfaissel to the Victorian Racing Club in memory of the snowy white horse called Subzero.
Reply #12 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberJohno
You may very well be right. I only purchased Brilliance (Meifaissel) this year and I can see the similarities. Both grow to 1.5m and have strong fragrance. It is interesting that both are charity roses. If they are the same, I do question the ethics of a grower having the variety under two different names in their catalogue.
Reply #13 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
I’ve opened a page for ‘Subzero’.
Reply #14 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberMargaret Furness
No, why would it say "...bred by Kim Syrus"?
Reply #15 of 15 posted 2 days ago by HMF supporting memberjedmar
HMF Admin, can this discussion be moved to the new rose listing 91162 please?
I don’t think it can Jedmar. I’ve just copied from Website omissions and pasted to ‘Subzero’.
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Reply
#1 of 7 posted
12 DEC by
 jedmar
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Thank you, Patricia!
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Pierre Arditi (MEIcalanq), renamed as 'Subzero' is a 2024 new release rose, introduced in Australia by Corporate Roses. Patricia Routley, you may have to merge these two files together. There is also a confusion about MEIcalanq and MEIdiaphaz ( Jean Moreau: National Pride). Matthias Meilland has already said in a comment in MEIcalanq that these two are two distinct varieties.
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I am sure you are right Indra Ashokkumar. Have you seen a reference which links Subzero with MEIcalanq?
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#4 of 7 posted
8 days ago by
Johno
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Can confirm that Subzero is MEIcalanq and not MEIfaissel. Petal count is much higher, very double.
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Thank you both. Subzero merged with MEIcalanq. (a reference is always preferable).
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#6 of 7 posted
4 days ago by
jedmar
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The Rose Society of South Australia gives today on fb the story of Subzero (Meicalanq)
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Thanks Jedmar. Reference added.
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'Pierre Arditi' (MEIcalanq), renamed as 'Subzero' is a 2024 new release rose introduced in Australia by Corporate Roses.
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There is confusion between MEIdiaphaz' and MEIcalanq. They may be the same rose. Does anybody know? See refs.
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Nope. But we have:
MEIdiaphaz 2005 (HelpMeFind file no 39751) with synonyms of:
Jeanne Moreau
National Pride
The Diamond Wedding Rose
MEIcalanq 2008 (HelpMeFind file 63496) with synonyms of
Lomonosov
Pierre Arditi
Roger Whittaker
Vive La Mariee!
White Perfumella
This morning I noted in the Meilland site they are calling 'Jeanne Moreau' MEIcalanq.
I just need to double check with .....anybody.... before merging these two files.
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They are 2 different cultivars apparently. The house of Meilland is selling them also as 2 different varieties. (Would be a disgrace to Jeanne Moreau, one of the biggest French actresses to share the spot with anyone else :) )
Jeanne Moreau has a creamy-yellowy hue when opening, Pierre Arditi has a pink hue.
I've planted them both, i'll report on the differences later this season
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Meidiaphaz and Meicalanq are distinct varieties, both have been granted a EU PBR (European Plant Breeders Rights) which is not granted if cannot pass DUS (Distinctness, Uniformity and Stability).
"DUS testing is a way of determining whether a newly bred variety differs from existing varieties within the same species (the Distinctness part)"
Trademark might change due to geographical production and sales, but also to market.
Cut Flower market is completely different than Garden market :
- Garden market : Propagators -> Finishers -> Garden Center/Online sales -> Final users
- Cut Flower market : Growers -> Wholesellers -> Florist -> Final users
Please ask us directly when it concern our vaireties, we are please to answer when we can
Best Regards
Matthias Meilland
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Thank you Matthias. It must have been all the DUSt in my eyes.
I am sure your concern is for the market. HelpMeFind’s concern is to distinguish the roses.
Using your awards for the roses, I have adjusted the dates back to before any two year trials so that now
MEIdiaphaz is showing a bred date of before 2000
MEIcalanq is showing a bred date of before 2005
If you have different dates for these roses, we would be pleased to adjust them when we can.
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Hi Patricia,
About breeding date, we never disclose it. So I will not confirm or deny it ;)
But yes, Meidiaphaz was released before Meicalanq.
Don't hesitate if there is a question about our varieties !!
Matthias
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Rosier very susceptible to diseases, so to absolutely avoid despite the beauty of the flower.
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Hi Sylvain, I bought it before reading these comments, so now I have it. Are there any diseases in particular to look out for, or just all of them? Thank you
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