PhotoComments & Questions 
Julia Child  rose photo courtesy of Kim Rupert
Discussion id : 61-405
most recent 25 JAN 12 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 24 JAN 12 by Jeffrey
Great shot! Is this your plant? Own root? How far back do you prune this one...? Last question: Is it as fragrant as the literature says? I just bought one for my own garden... It's grafted, so I may take cuttings to get OW plants.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 24 JAN 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
Hi Jeff, this is one I purchased commercially, produced by Week's before their sale. It was a five gallon, bud and bloom plant, budded on Dr. Huey. It had been in place for probably two years when this shot was taken. No spray, little fertilizer, just regular water and lots of reflected, radiated heat from the stucco wall behind. Thanks!
Reply #2 of 8 posted 24 JAN 12 by Jeffrey
Thanks, Kim. I have mine in a 5 gallon pot right now. I'll plant it out once the soil here is a little drier. I'm in a cool Sunset zone 17 garden, so I hope the rose doesn't sulk from lack of heat.

Reply #3 of 8 posted 24 JAN 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
This one is in Valencia, CA, mid desert with high heat and chilly (usually) winters. The soil is rich and very well drained and it gets regular water with lots of heat. There is a moderate licorice scent. The stems are virtually non existent, but the profusion of bloom and the fast repeat more than make up for it. Plant it beside Ebb Tide for a nice contrast.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 24 JAN 12 by Jeffrey
I have 'Ebb Tide', I'll definitely get them together. I want to try crossing them, too, see what comes from it.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 24 JAN 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
That could be interesting Jeff. You'd have a double dose of the Soulieana hybrid used to create both which could give you some interesting traits.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 24 JAN 12 by Jeffrey
Is there any documentation on crossing colors for particular results... I like brown roses, for example. A number of brown/russet roses have orange and mauve parents. I have a Fine Arts background, color theory says that orange and blue will create shades of brown and rust. I know there's not a blue rose, but mauve seems to have a similar effect.

Any thoughts?
Reply #7 of 8 posted 25 JAN 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
Hi Jeff, there is this chart for predicting your seedling's color.

The best book about breeding for "funny colors" is Rose Growing Complete, by Edward LeGrice. You want this book! Not the 1965 hard cover, but the updated 1972 soft back edition. He has a short chapter providing the recipe for breeding for gray and brown roses. He said you need an admixture of red, yellow, pink and a bicolor red/yellow to produce the lavender. Homogenizing the genes, say lavender x lavender, leads to heavily greyed whites, almost silver. Throwing in a ringer to partially break down the homogenization, gives browns (russets). If the "ringer" was of R. Californica breeding, it provides stability to the browns and in the cases of his breeding (Vesper, Jocelyn, Victoriana) it leads to cluster flowering with characteristic short, bunched stems. He further wrote that changing the red/yellow bicolor to one of red with a white reverse, led to vinous purples such as his Great News.

The only case I know of where an odd color resulted from a cross which appears to have behaved like mixing paint is Julia's Rose. Lavender (Blue Moon) X golden yellow (Dr. A. J. Verhage) created "copper and parchment", almost like a brown paper shopping bag.

You're probably aware of instances such as wall flowers, pansies, violas, primulas and mums where purple varieties frequently sport to russet tones, but similar things have occurred in roses. Winter Magic, one of the heavily greyed whites which appears pale, silvery lavender, sported to soft coffee and cream, called Cafe Ole. I'm sure there have been others, but this example comes to mind. There is a strong correlation between purple and brown in flower colors. I'm sure you and others can come up with many other examples.

Ralph Moore stated frequently that to 'stabilize' purple roses, cross them with strong yellows, those with little to no fade. To keep the purple (or lavender) "clean" or unstained, you would need a yellow which doesn't stain red. Potential colors are indicated by all the plant parts. A rose whose new growth is strongly red, even though the flowers don't express red, can produce a reddish seedling with the right parent. If you have a lavender which fades too much for you, crossing it with a yellow which doesn't express any red tints in the plant or flower and which doesn't fade much, can help to intensify and stabilize the lavender. Crossing it with a stained yellow leads to lavenders which blush or burn red, such as Angel Face, Paradise, Barbra Streisand, etc.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 25 JAN 12 by Jeffrey
Great! Thanks, Kim! I've seen the chart before. It leaves out the russets, though maybe they're a subset of the orange roses...

Your last note is wonderful. I'll see if I can find the book on Amazon.

I have an interesting seedling from 'Compassion' that is a lovely green color. It holds the green well. The blooms are very ruffled and heavily petaled. It was an OP seedling. The plants from that batch of hips have gone the gamut from matching the mother plant's blooms, through single and cabbagy petaled yellows to white and the odd duck green. Most are climbers.
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