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Discussion id : 64-139
most recent 15 MAY 12 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 8 MAY 12 by Grntrz5
Is this a Hybrid Rugosa? (Is it a Gallica? something else?)

I've tried looking this up on HMF, putting in for 'Hybrid Rugosa, any pink, before 1950'. The only close match is "The New Century", but maybe it's not a Rugosa, but another hybrid.

I first thought it was "Therese Bugnet" but it's not thornless near the blooms, and the petals are not that silky, or as long. it has a clove-rose scent that might be medium to strong, but it was a windy day but the scent does waft.

The blooms are in small loose clusters, and the color is a pink-lilac about 2 or 2.5 inches across. I didn't notice any petal drop on the ground, the blooms were too new for that.

The canes are light pink on some of the newer growth, and are short and branching, with smaller thorns near the blooms, and larger ones closer to the base. The plant is about 20" tall, but the patch is about 8x20ft.

The leaves are not very wrinkled, and only faintly furry on the underside; they are a medium gloss, and not fragrant. Their new growth is a fresh lime green, and the thorns are light green as well.

I think this rose is a 1x bloomer, I've never noticed it before, the warm winter, and all the rain has slowed down all the mowing that people do around here. I can't remember if I've seen any fall color in the area either, usually between the homeowner and MODOT everything is nicely mowed.

Missouri was open for settlement about 1850, and this western edge of Missouri and Kansas was a place of destruction, there were only 7 families in this county after the Civil War. Any garden plants were either pass-along plants, or came in the late 1800's by train to the larger cities; Springfield, Joplin, Carthage, Lockwood, Greenfield, and then by any means a homeowner could find.

Sadly, there are no old seed and plant catalogs that I can access easily, there might be a few in the library of the Missouri Botanical Garden in St. Louis, but they are not for interlibrary loan, and are not available online. There is another collection of seed and plant plant catalogs in Wellesley Massachusetts, but you need to be a member of their library and interlibrary loans are not available for that portion of their collection. http://www.masshort.org/MHS-Library (Save your catalogs!)

I've called it Bushnell Corners rose for now, I need to talk with the newer owners of the land are-they may be related to the older owners who planted the rose in the first place, or do a title search at the courthouse.
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Reply #1 of 8 posted 8 MAY 12 by Patricia Routley
'Sarah Van Fleet', 1926 ? This rose usually is much taller, but I think in survival mode, it would struggle along at a lower height. Watch it to see if it sets hips or not. 'Sarah Van Fleet' sets none.
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Reply #2 of 8 posted 9 MAY 12 by Grntrz5
Thank you Patricia, I'll have to dig up a chunk of this or take a cutting. I'm sure the neighboring farmers, and the highway crews will pull out those mowers any day now. The color is similar to the photos of Sarah van Fleet, but the leaves don't look the same, they look rounder on Sarah, and Sarah's petals are more refined looking, longer and wider somehow.
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Reply #3 of 8 posted 11 MAY 12 by Ozoldroser
I would not say rugosa and certainly not Sarah Patricia. Seems more HP or Bourbon to my eye.
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Reply #4 of 8 posted 12 MAY 12 by Patricia Routley
You could be right Pat. The leaves of "Bushnell Corners" appear to be more smooth than 'Sarah Van Fleet's leaves. I have put some of my photos of 'Sarah Van Fleet' in HelpMefind which may help Grntrz5 determine whether SvF is in the running, or not.
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Reply #5 of 8 posted 12 MAY 12 by Grntrz5
Patricia, thank your for the time to take more photos, the rose looks very similar to what you show. I'll have to get down there and bring home a sample, the squared off petal looks very much the same. I'll have to pull apart a bud to compare. I didn't see a fresh bloom so some of the photos threw me the first time I sorted through the Hybrid Rugosa, and I didn't really look at the older canes.

Looking at the references I read that Sarah van Fleet was distributed to the Missouri Botanical Garden in St, Louis, and a few other places that would have made it easier to get the rose into trade. Was this a common rose for the average homeowner? There was a grade school in the area, but that has since burned down.
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Reply #6 of 8 posted 14 MAY 12 by Grntrz5
Patricia, I looked at the rose again this morning when I took some cuttings, this looks more like an old rose, like a Damask. I am new to roses so I don't know what some of the differences are bewteen Gallica, Alba.....

I have a small band of "Miranda", and the spines on the canes, and floppy delicate leaves remind me of it, or Kazanlik. (the petals were a bit droopy when I got to potting up the cuttings, in shade you don't see the tiny fine hairs.)

I've never had any success with rose cuttings, or really any practice, I have them in Mircle-Gro potting soil, but used a hormone based rooting powder. Anything special for rooting these older roses?
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Reply #7 of 8 posted 15 MAY 12 by Margaret Furness
Try this one for warm-weather striking of cuttings (needs about 6-8 weeks of warm weather). http://www.heritage.rose.org.au/warm-weather-rose-propagation.html
Also, helpmefind has advice on propagating - click on Videos, Publications and enter cuttings, then Search.
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Reply #8 of 8 posted 15 MAY 12 by Grntrz5
Patricia, I'll try that method, thank you.

The link in Heritage's website for the Mel Hulse/Paul Barden method is now: http://paulbardenroses.com/hulse.html
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