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Kathy Strong
most recent 3 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 3 days ago by martinesavignet
I wish to inform you that the "Jane Goodhall" rose was introduced by Roseraie Guillot in 2011.

However, their creators, Christian Hanak & Guillaume Didier, must be added !!!

Source: http://chemins-spirituelrose.over-blog.com/article-rose-jane-goodall-dossier-de-presse-85603606.html
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Reply #1 of 3 posted 3 days ago by Patricia Routley
We have this rose listed - as 'Jane Goodall'. But thank you anyway.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.78882&tab=1
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Reply #2 of 3 posted 3 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
It would appear from the picture in the above cited article about the 2011 Guillot rose "Jane Goodall" that it is the same rose that J & P has now intro'd in the US as Dr. Jane Goodall.
See, https://www.jacksonandperkins.com/dr-jane-goodall-hybrid-tea-rose/p/v2182/. They look the same.
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Reply #3 of 3 posted 3 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thank you Kathy. Files merged.
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PhotoQ & C
most recent 3 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 3 days ago by Rosaholic's Southern California Garden
thank you, Andrew.
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most recent 4 days ago SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 12 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
Certified Roses website shows St. Tropez as a floribunda, not hybrid tea. See,http://certifiedrose.com/images/sttropez.pdf

Quote:
Fact Sheet
New from Certified Roses for 2018
St. Tropez
(cv. ORAsyda, Rose Alleyson) PPAF
Fragrant Apricot Orange Floribunda
Class: Floribunda
Plant Habit: Medium height, 3 to 4 feet
Growth Habit: Upright to rounded, bushy
Stem Length: Medium
Foliage Color: Medium green & glossy
Disease
Resistance: Very good
Flower Color: Lasting apricot orange
Bud Form: Turbinate
Flower Form: Fully double, ruffled
Flower Size: Large, 5-inch diameter
Petal Count: 30 to 35
Fragrance: Strong licorice candy
Parentage: Easy Going x Top Notch
Hybridizer: Rosaraies Orard
Introducer: Certified Roses
Selling Points:
• What a color! The scrumptiously luscious almost-edible apricot-orange blossoms
redolent with the perfume of sweet anise can easily conjure up dreams of a cool
tropical cocktail and warm sandy beaches.
• Loads of full ruffled flowers adorn this beautiful bushy plant. Its attractive rounded
habit is clothed with an abundance of glossy green clean leaves, perfect for the
poolside, patio or landscape.
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Reply #1 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thank you Kathy, Do you think it is a floribunda, or a hybrid tea?
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Reply #2 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
It's a florrie.
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Reply #3 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
The photos all seem to show the single blooms of a hybrid tea, and not the clustering of a floribunda.
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Reply #4 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
Its three grandparents are all floribundas.
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Reply #5 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
As were its parents. I'll add Floribunda. Justin, are you watching/listening.
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Reply #6 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
But. it does look very much like a hybrid-tea
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Reply #7 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
Well, I just got it as a bareroot, so I haven't seen it bloom yet, but Certified, the introducer, puts a label on each plant that says florrie.
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Reply #8 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Margaret Furness
A wandering bee, perhaps?
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Reply #9 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
Oh dear. I thought you knew the rose well. Just because someone else says it was "something'" doesn't mean we have to accept it when we can see it might be "something else". HelpMeFind is all about guiding gardeners towards the truth. The breeder themselves list it as "Grandes fleurs". Isn't that a hybrid tea?
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Reply #10 of 16 posted 4 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
I disagree. The purpose of listing it as a hybrid tea or florrie should be consistent across the databases, and having one database, such as HMF, exercise its "independent judgment" should be avoided. If the seller says it's a florrie, then it is. Period. And any listing here as a hybrid tea would just plain be in error, no matter what HMF's independent judgment is.
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Reply #11 of 16 posted 4 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
I have to say I disagree with the above statement. The rose should be described in its profile as what it ACTUALLY is and not whatever tradesmen decide they would like to market it as. This is exactly why so many varieties get muddled and lost. This is exactly why HMF is so important, precisely because its judgement is independent.

There are two forth generation roses that are hybrid-teas but all other descendants are floribundas. The breeder's description of "Grandes fleurs", doesn't this translate to grandiflora? Just to throw a spanner in the works. Even so I would still expect it to still have cluster flowers as well as single stems. It would be very interesting to see what other members are growing as 'St Tropez'.
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Reply #12 of 16 posted 4 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
One of the problems that occurs when HMF reassigns a rose's classification to something more of HMF's liking is that for American rose shows, you must correctly exhibit a rose in its properly assigned class. This rose would be disqualified if exhibited in the "hybrid tea" class (which class is combined with grandifloras, but not floribundas over here). And since there is essentially a continuum of rose characteristics, with many roses "correct" class being quite debatable -- many, if not most, roses show some characteristics of one class and other characteristics in another -- the default position, in my opinion, has to be the one which the entity selling the rose has chosen. If HMF must reassign roses to some other class than the seller has assigned to it, at the very least there should be a notification that it has done so on the homepage for that rose.
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Reply #13 of 16 posted 4 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
I can understand it must be very frustrating. If as Patricia states "The breeder themselves list it as "Grandes fleurs"", this must indicate what type the rose is. I am ashamed to say that my French beyond what I can do on translating websites is very little. What is the French for Floribunda, Grandiflora and Hybrid-Tea? If the rose is classed as a Grandiflora then, under your system, it must be classed with the Hybrid-Teas. Even though it is very clear from its linage that it is definitely a Floribunda. And its growth is very like a Hybrid-Tea.
I am way over my depth here!
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Reply #15 of 16 posted 4 days ago by Marlorena
Mons. Orard also calls it a Hybrid Tea. This is from his website..

Souvent appelés Hybrides de Thé, ces rosiers sont le plus souvent uniflores (une fleur par tige)et poussent à environ 1.00 m de hauteur.

Often called Tea Hybrids, these roses are most often uniflorus (one flower per stem)
and grow to about 1.00 m in height.

Grande Fleurs = Hybrid Tea...
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Reply #16 of 16 posted 4 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I just made an inquiry to the grower. We'll get to the bottom of this.
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Reply #14 of 16 posted 4 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I'm going to chime in here. I agree with Kathy.

All references have traditionally adhered to the official classification made by the breeder and the recording body.

In my opinion HMF and it's users would be best served by following suit.

Any opinions expressed by growers can be shared in the comments section.

Classification of roses is a messy business and one that no doubt will continue to evolve over time.

Best wishes, Robert
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most recent 5 days ago SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 12 days ago by Michael Garhart
" Grape Jelly™ ‘Meimauleva’ PPAF
Class/Color: Deep lavender, burgundy, does not fade, floribunda • Bloom/Size: Small petals • Height/Habit: Bushy and upright, up to 5 ½’ h • Petal Count: 5–8 • Fragrance: None noticeable • Parentage: The Fairy X Frantasia* Hybridizer: Meilland® International • Introducer: Star® Roses and Plants • Comments: Grape Jelly™ has a great novelty color of deep lavender to burgundy depending on the climate. This floribunda rose will work well everywhere except in areas with high pressure for black spot. It grows well on its own roots. Best for the West Coast."

Source: rose.org
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Reply #1 of 2 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thanks Michael.
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Reply #2 of 2 posted 5 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
I've been growing it a year. Dumb name, but actually a fine rose. I do take issue however with the sale of this rose as a climber, which is how Star/Meilland is marketing it in Star's latest catalog. It doesn't get over five feet as far as I can tell, and is really a perfect florrie in bloom cluster form. See, https://www.starrosesandplants.com/plants/floribunda-rose/grape-jelly
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