HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Kathy Strong
most recent 3 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 3 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
not close to 4 inches across -- was that a reference to 4 cm maybe? I would estimate it as 2.5 inches across on average.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 3 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thank you Kathy. We've bought it down a little from 4" to 3.25" to align with the patent.
most recent 5 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 7 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
I am wondering whether there is anyone around who knows where there is a very old specimen of Peace -- i.e., planted shortly after World War II. That is when it was imported to the U.S., and I suspect the newer specimens have slowly mutated away from the grandeur of the original. I would like to propagate new plants from a very old plant to test this hypothesis. So if anyone has, or knows where, such a first-generation-type plant exists -- in their grandma's old rose garden, or whatever - please tell me where it is so I can collect some budwood. Thank you.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 5 days ago by Rupert, Kim L.
Hi Kathy, unfortunately, I don't know of a specimen as you describe. I can tell you a friend in Santa Barbara bought a standard commercial budded plant of Peace and planted it outside her kitchen in century old garden soil. The house was built in 1898 so it is not engineered nor compacted. There has been a century plus of organic material falling on her hill and she regularly uses her chicken manure to spread around the roses and fruit trees. The Peace receives gray water from her kitchen sink as well as irrigation with the rest of the roses. The bush is nearly six feet tall with healthy, gorgeous foliage. She never sprays nor uses pesticides nor fungicides as the hill is planted with many edibles which she eats and shares. The flowers are HUGE and look just like the old catalog photos from decades past. She doesn't prune the plant much but breaks off the spent blooms at the point of abscission. I have long sought the kind of Peace you are looking for and have never run across one anywhere. My youngest sister in Santa Clarita bought several Peace bushes at Green Arrow twenty-plus years ago when they bought their house and she followed my suggestion of never whacking them. Hers are about the same size as the Santa Barbara plant, or were when I saw them last over three years ago. I'm sure if you would like to try some cuttings or bud wood of the Santa Barbara plant, it should be able to be arranged.

From the success of these three plants, I would suggest the main issues are the commercial stock is likely usually held too dry in storage and once planted, they aren't given enough deep, friable soil in which to generate the root system they need to produce the size of plant they want to be. All three of these plants grow in soil which has not been engineered (mechanically compacted to provide seismic stability in earthquakes) so water drains deeply into it, allowing the roots to follow deeply into into it. For homes built after 1980, California homes generally have engineered soil which prevents air, water and roots from penetrating deeply.

I have Kimo (striped Peace) and a root sport from that plant which appears to have reverted to Flaming Peace, both own root, which are also available if you would like to play with material from them.
most recent 6 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 7 FEB by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
modern roses 12 shows this rose registered as a shrub.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 7 FEB by Patricia Routley
Yes, they do. But Lens Roses call it a miniature shrub and classify it as a Hybrid Musk.,session_id=80398084433
Reply #2 of 2 posted 6 days ago by Michael Garhart
I think the other parent is Trier, but I need to find the reference in one of my books...
most recent 7 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 13 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
Ahem. This nursery is back to the practice of introducing "new" roses that are actually old roses under newly invented (by them) marketing names. I called them out on this when they introduced "Moonlight in Paris" that is actually Garden and Home, a previously introduced variety in the US (by Ludwigs), and for which "Garden and Home" is also the official exhibition name for that rose. A few weeks ago, they showed the codename (DELanac) of "Moonlight in Paris" on their website, so one could see when this supposedly "new" rose was actually a re-introduction of the older rose under a new name, which in that case, it was. Their response to being called out on using new marketing names was to remove the codenames from their website listings for their so-called "new" roses. So they have now just taken to hiding the fact that their "new" roses are actually re-introductions of older roses under newly invented names. Beware!
Reply #1 of 2 posted 13 days ago by HEIRLOOM ROSES
Dear Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden,

Thank your for your post, however, we do not take the liberty to rename roses for marketing or any other purposes.

The rose you referred to had it's name changed directly by the breeder. We have never grown Garden and Home, so this rose, Moonlight in Paris was new to us and introduced as such to our customers.

If you would like to discuss our new introduction process, please give us a call and our Sales and Marketing Manager will be happy to speak with you. You can reach us at 800-820-0465.

Thank you.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 7 days ago by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
That's different than what I had heard, and if I am wrong, I am sorry. But, for the record, what I understood was that you had obtained these roses from Ludwig's stock after Anja closed the Arizona company, and there this rose was known as "Garden and Home," and a few of my rose society pals that bought it from them grow it under that name, which is also how the ARS has it registered. I also looked at the current Ludwigs catalog for their South African company, and it is also sold there as "Garden and Home."

See, this quote from Ludwig's current catalog blurb on this rose:
Garden and Home DELanac(N)
One of few roses with informal growth habit & flower
shape of the old roses while possessing flower power
& vigour; clusters on upright growing stems - pickable.
Round buds open slowly to classical cup shape of old
roses; many petals & stamens; fruity, spicy fragrance;
deep green, slightly frilly leaves. Plant alone, in groups,
rows or mix with others.
From Ludwigs 2017/2018 catalog: see,

So, with all that, now I am really curious who took it upon themselves to rename this rose "Moonlight in Paris." Can you shed any light on that?
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