HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent today HIDE POSTS
Initial post today by Tomartyr
As can be seen, my 'Andromeda' has single petal form, whereas another photograph in the section is double, but with very similar colouring. The HMF Andromeda description says the variety is semi-double. My plant came from a reputable grower and appears to be the same as the other HMF photo (under contributor 'V'). Perhaps some clematis-savvy member can throw some light on this?
Reply #1 of 2 posted today by jedmar
Many Clematis have semi-double or double blooms in the first flush in spring, but single flowers in autumn. This seems also to be the case with Andomeda. See also here:


Is your plant still Young? It is possible that it needs to establish itself before it produces semi-double blooms in the first flush.
Reply #2 of 2 posted today by Tomartyr
My plant is about six years old and the photo taken today is of a bloom in the first flush of the season.
most recent 2 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 4 days ago by Evosmos
I am quite sure that this is the same rose grown elsewhere under the name " Annapurna".
Reply #2 of 4 posted 4 days ago by Puns 'n' Roses
Unless there is some plant mislabelled as Annapurna somewhere out there, I'm not convinced. The Annapurnas I saw were of the purest white at a time when lots of other white or light pink roses in that park had pink flecks on the petals from the rain. Magnificent blooms, the most impressive ones in the huge park. Spotless, brilliant. I was so thrilled.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 3 days ago by Evosmos
The blooms of 'Coeur de Neige' in my garden glow with the purest white in the midday sun. On Delbard's French website , " Les Rosiers Delbard" there are only three white roses: Annapurna (Dorblan) ,Grand Nord (Delgrard) and Sweet Love (Harmisty).
Reply #4 of 4 posted 2 days ago by jedmar
Many rose breeders introduce roses which are specifically for a different part of the world. There are Delbard roses which can be found only in Japan, for example. It is definitely not 'Annapurna', as the breeder code is distinct. If it is a regional variety, it would not be on the Delbard site. Same applies to breeders like Kordes, Tantau and Meilland.

Coeur de Neige
Reply #5 of 4 posted 2 days ago by Patricia Routley
I could have sworn I had responded to Evesmos' initial comment.

Jedmar, the Delbard website (for me) gave only the same three white roses as Evosmos has mentioned:
Annapurna (Dorblan) ,Grand Nord (Delgrard) and Sweet Love (Harmisty).

The linky you have quoted is not the Delbard site, but the Australian nursery Rankins Roses, the agent for Delbard roses. The only code name I could find is contained in the HMF main page linky for Diana Sargeant's Silkies Rose Farm & Rosesalesonline in Clonbinane, Victoria, Australia.
most recent 6 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 7 days ago by Michael Garhart
When lineage is brought up, this rose doesn't seem to show Cecile Brunner and Anne de (forgot the rest) as descendents. Or maybe Im blind????
Reply #1 of 4 posted 6 days ago by Patricia Routley
You're not blind.
Cecile Brunner 1880. Parentage is shown as (Polyantha Alba plena x Mme de Tartas)
Mme de Tartas 1859. No descendants are shown

There is a problem. Admin might like to see previous comments 69-904.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 6 days ago by Michael Garhart
Okay, glad Im not crazy.

I noticed when I tried to look up:

I also noticed that trying to search for Perle d'Or wouldnt come up in any combination I tried. I am not sure if it is because of language?? I dont know :[

I was on a 1800s polyantha research kick lol.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 6 days ago by jedmar
Yes, AMdM didn't show up in the descendants of MdT either. I removed 'Madame de Tartas' as parent of 'Anne Marie de Montravel' and added it back in. Now it doers - so it seems the link was broken. My hypothesis: The link was possibly with 'Madame de Thartas' and got lost when I changed that spelling to hidden alias in 2015. To be checked.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 6 days ago by Michael Garhart
most recent 8 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 12 days ago by CybeRose
Apparently, 'Bengale à grandes feuilles' (L. Noisette) is not the same as Cartier's 'Bengale cent feuilles'.

Dictionnaire des roses: ou, Guide général du rosiériste, Volume 1 page 149 (1885)
By Max Singer
Bengale à grandes feuilles. L. Noisette. Arbrisseau vigoureux, à rameaux droits et glauques, armés d'aiguillons nombreux, violets, larges à la base, crochus; folioles allongées, planes, un peu dentées, très larges et d'un vert foncé; fleurs réunies au nombre de trois à cinq, en bouquets terminaux, doubles, d'un rose tendre lors de l'épanouissement, puis carmin, et enfin passant au pourpre foncé.

Google Translation: Vigorous shrub, with straight, glaucous branches, armed with numerous, violet spines, broad at the base, hooked; leaflets elongate, flat, slightly dentate, very broad, and dark green; flowers united in number from three to five, in terminal bouquets, double, of a soft pink at the time of blooming, then carmine, and finally turning to dark purple.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 9 days ago by jedmar
Yes, that is quite possible. The synonymity seems to come from the "Old Rose Advisor". I would collect some more references to be sure, then separate.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 8 days ago by CybeRose
I am looking for a source that lists both, but so far no luck.

The color is different, though. According to Redoute, the Bengale Cent feuille flowers were a little darker than those of R. Indica vulgaris (Parsons' Pink?). To the contrary, the sources I've found state that the Grandes Feuilles had flowers that changed from pale to dark.

Also, it is odd to find detailed descriptions in the 1830s and 1840s of a rose that had been around since before 1804.

I'll keep looking.
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