HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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In the mid eighties, I was a Jewelry Manager for a Southern California department store chain which no longer exists. Frances and Al Farmer were "regular" customers. For them, shopping several nights a week was entertainment. They'd regularly stop by the Jewelry Department for her to look at opals, as they were her favorite. Al seldom spoke, most likely because Frances seldom didn't speak. He was quiet, and mostly in the background. Frances, on the other hand, took talking to an art form. The only thing larger than her stature was her personality. She was the queen at the local donut shop, where she'd reigned for several decades. I often wondered how they had ever gotten together as they appeared to be so totally mismatched. She'd browse the opal jewelry, and he'd usually come back without her, within a few days, and count on me to remember what she'd expressed the greatest interest in.
This was early in my rose obsession, and I'd frequently bring in large buckets of blooms for the counter in the department. The "regulars" would often swing by to see what the latest odd roses were from my garden. I soon obtained the reputation for being the "rose expert", which literally means the one who knows one more thing about the subject than most others do.
By 1986, the chain had closed, and I lost contact with the people I'd regularly seen. I was moving on to other pastures. One day, my youngest sister called me saying there was an odd message on her answering machine. About the same time, my middle sister showed up with a scribbled note with the same message. Frances was trying to locate me. She knew my last name, but I was unlisted. My youngest sister was the only Rupert in the phone book, so she took the chance we were related. Frances had an idea where my mother lived, and she knew the yard would be over flowing with roses as there were roughly 350 of them in that first garden. She found what she felt sure must have been the right house and left the note, in hopes I'd receive it. My dad had passed away and mom was in the hospital for quite a while, so it took some time for my sister to discover the note.
A while after the store closed, Al died. Frances had medical problems of her own, and her only child lived in Washington State. She'd decided it was prudent to move in with her daughter, and wanted to find me before she left. I called the number. Frances told me I had always been "Al's favorite", and she wanted to see me before she moved. We set a date for me to come to her house.
Al had bought this little post WW II tract house in Van Nuys in the mid 1950s. Some years later, he and Frances got together. Each had been married a few times before finding they were the right ones for the other. Now, Frances had sold the place, lock, stock and barrel and was moving away. On the north side of the house, where you honestly wouldn't expect a rose to successfully grow, stood a very old Hybrid Tea. It had hung on for many, many years, receiving virtually no direct sun, and seldom any regular water. I doubt if it was ever fed, and never sprayed. As I said, Al was a man of very few words. Frances said he didn't often tell her he loved her, but every time that old, red, very fragrant rose bloomed, he picked it and presented it to her. She knew it was his way of telling her he loved her. She couldn't bear to leave that symbol of Al's love behind and wanted me to see if I could help her take some of it with her.
Old budded roses often take on an "atoll" type growth shape. The center of the bud union rots out, leaving a ring of basal breaks which root on their own. Trying to dig the plant out of its hole, the "ring" breaks up, and you have a few to many plants of the rose. I dug out the plant, and it broke into five or six pieces. I carefully bare rooted two of them, wrapped them carefully so they'd have as good a chance at making it alive, for Frances to take with her. She was pretty sure the house was to be demolished, so I didn't leave any of the rose in place to be bull dozed. I took the remainder of them home and potted them. They were dutifully labeled, "Al's Red".
My plants of "Al's Red" struggled along as it was definitely the wrong time of the year to bare root roses, but you do what you have to, when you have to do it. All of them survived and began producing their double, cupped, heavily fragrant red blooms on every stem they produced. They impressed me as being 'grateful', as they finally got the heat, light, food and water they'd struggled without all those years in Frances' and Al's side yard. A few weeks later, I received a letter from Frances saying in her haste, she forgot her two plants of "Al's Red", and, could I please send her one to plant in her daughter's garden. I wrote back that I would make sure of it. I had plants to spare. I thought the best time would have been late winter so she'd be able to get them into the ground when the weather was more agreeable. My "Al's Red" continued to bloom their heads off.
It didn't take many of the blooms to determine "Al's Red" was actually Red Radiance. It's such a distinctive rose, as are all of the Radiance clan. But, my plants remained labeled, "Al's Red".
Winter began turning to spring, and I wrote Frances to see when she'd like her roses. It took a while longer than I expected to hear back from her, only this letter came from Frances' daughter. Frances had told everyone the story of "Al's Red", and how touched she was that I was going to make it possible for her to always grow Al's love for her. Shortly after Christmas, Frances died in her sleep of a heart attack. Her daughter asked if I could please still send the plants as she wanted to have one in her garden, and take one to where Frances would be buried. The arrangements were made, the plants sent and received, and confirmation was sent to me they were settling in and should be fine.
For the remainder of the time I grew Red Radiance, it remained "officially" labeled, "Al's Red". I still run across them here and there, as well as regular Radiance, and every time I see one of them, Frances and Al come to mind. I think they always will.
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#1 of 10 posted
11 APR 06 by
Unregistered Guest
Thank you for posting such a touching story. Roses are very personal flowers and evoke different emotions and memories for each of us.
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Artemis, you're very welcome. Thank you for enjoying my memory association for Red Radiance and taking the time to share your enjoyment. As I'm sure you know, sharing the memory and receiving feedback it was enjoyed, only serves to increase the enjoyment. Thank you. Kim
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I just ran across this lovely story. Thank you for taking the time to post it.
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#4 of 10 posted
14 JUL 06 by
Jody
Kim, I too just ran across this story. Thank you so much for posting it. It is a lovely story. Jody
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Thank you, and, you're welcome! Roses ARE romantic..whether it's the passionate romance of lovers, or sentimental associations with dear people who enliven our lives. I'm sure if we thought about it, many of us have these types of stories and associations. I love reading them, too. Now, to get others to dig theirs out of the moth balls...
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#6 of 10 posted
1 DEC 06 by
lynnis
What a beautiful love story.
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#7 of 10 posted
30 DEC 06 by
Unregistered Guest
oh what a beautiful story. Its so lovely that you have gone on and preserved the rose Als Red for Frances.I'm sure she knows that you have followed through with your promise. Its stories like this that make you realise that the world can be a wonderful place.
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Thank you, Michelle. Kim
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What a wonderful story and what a great story-teller you are Kim!
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Initial post
7 JUL 06 by
Unregistered Guest
I was married and honymooned in Maine an there were roses growing everywhere right by the water where we stayed. We now live on a lake and I want to line the shore with roses like we saw in Maine. The roses will have to be tolerant of a lot of water being at the edge of the water. Also I don't know if the roses we saw were wild or not? Thanks for any help you can give me.
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#1 of 2 posted
7 JUL 06 by
Jody
There was a question by someone else recently on the plant ID category ( on June 25) about a reddish rose in Maine. It was Rosa Woodsii. ck the pix on this site. it looks pink but there are more than one variety. if not this one maybe maybe a Rosa rugosa?? Give us more description. Good Luck
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Pat Austin is a water-hog, and bloom well in partial shade. Pat has shiny & glossy foliage. Roses with glossy foliage like Sweet Promise (Meilland Romantica) roses also like it soaking wet. My FlowerCarpet Coral (with glossy & shiny foliage) can handle spring flood better than Knock-outs (matte foliage).
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Initial post
25 JUN 06 by
stacy
Friends have magnificent Madame Gregoire Staechlin climbers which perform in profusion every spring depite benign neglect. BUT my (2) are prone to black spot, leggy and with rather sparse foliage - one over an arch, a second against an East wall. Any suggestions of what I should do to help them to find a bit more energy and health?
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#1 of 3 posted
3 JUL 06 by
Jody
Hi have you tried giving them B1? or Messenger or some other fertilizer to boost them?? Good Luck
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#2 of 3 posted
8 SEP 06 by
Unregistered Guest
I've had good luck with Mill Magic Mix. My roses have been much healthier since I've been using it. I also give climbers and ramblers a top dressing of composted manure in the Fall. Lots of organics in the soil really help. It could also just be the roses you have. Sometimes there are several different "clones" of a rose in commerce and some versions are better than others. Perhaps you could ask your friends for some cuttings and try rooting them for yourself.
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An eastern wall is not good for this rose. It needs its full complement of sunlight - 6 hours daily or more.
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the tag said Mother's Day and it's now lost...but there isn't anything that I can find that matches it on these pages...the unique cluster is huge and has the pinkish rose in the middle surrounded by yellow...any guesses?
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#1 of 24 posted
6 JUL 06
* This post deleted by user *
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#2 of 24 posted
6 JUL 06 by
Anonymous-104317
Need your help...where would I find the "David Austin page"? And...I'm confused by the idea about the parent throwing a yellow blossom...explain to a novice...pretty please? :) ...here's more photos to maybe help...and yes there is a fragrance... (...found the site http://www.davidaustinroses.com/american/) ...but not the flower...
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#3 of 24 posted
6 JUL 06 by
Wendy C
This is a most unusual rose. The center bloom would be the oldest in the spray. If it is a phototropic rose all of them should age to the same pink. Is it doing that? The yellow roses look like Peace to me. The problem is Peace isn't a floribunda, which this one seems to be. So odd. From the rose search page you could do a search for 'ARS' Yellow blend, Floribunda or Grandiflora and see what pops up. I wish I could be of more help. I'd be very interested in knowing what this little rose is. I think Jody was refering to the rose bush throwing a 'Sport'. A sport is a natural mutation. Chicago Peace is a Sport of Peace. Most sports aren't stable, but some are. You would have the different rose budded on it's own root stock and watch it to see if it stayed the same or went back to the orginal variety. Best of Luck
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OK...you've taught me some very important things to watch...including the entire process from bloom to dead-heading! Turns out we usually cut the clusters and bring them inside when the middle one is pink and the others are yellow...and we've never just left a whole lot outside in the sun to see what happens...and since doing all this I did just that and below you will see what happened. Exactly what you asked about...all the flowers "aged" to the same pink! I'm headed over to the ARS pages to see what else I can learn...but thank you for teaching me this important way to observe the blooms!
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#5 of 24 posted
6 JUL 06 by
Wendy C
You are most assuredly welcome. Intriqued by your blooms I did a search for yellow blend, floribundas and Summer Fashion came up. I wonder if this might be what you have. I don't grow Summer Fashion, so it's just a guess.
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Wow...I was going alphabetically down the list of over 200...and I was on Arc De Triomphe ..which after viewing the variety of photos I could swear that was pretty close to mine...and then I checked your suggestion of Summer Fashion...HAHAH...they are the same! I guess great minds think alike! :) Thanks ...I think I'm going to continue taking photos, counting petals and doing more to see if indeed this is it...but it sure is close!
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Well, I've found another possibility...take a look at French Perfume...some of the photos look very close too! I've counted the petals just to be sure and there are about 30...and the ones that have been brought inside are turning almost white with the pink slowly disappearing...so I'm wondering if that's something French Perfume would do too? And since Summer Fashion says it only has 20 petals, how strict is that count...should I rule it out because of petal count?
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#12 of 24 posted
10 JUL 06 by
Wendy C
Your rose could very well be French Perfume. I would compare information on both roses. Examine pictures which include foliage and make your decision from that. I don't grow either, so I can't be much more help... though it certainly looks as if I should grow them both! smile
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To find the David Austin page, go to "Breeders" on the navigation bar on the left of the Welcome page and then enter "Austin" in the search field. A page for the breeder will come up and there will be tabs near the top. Just click on the "Roses Bred" tab and you will have an alphabetical listing of all of the roses he has bred that are included in our database. Smiles, Lyn, helpmefind.com
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#8 of 24 posted
7 JUL 06
* This post deleted by user *
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#9 of 24 posted
7 JUL 06 by
Meschuee
Hello.My "English Miss" has the same colouring, she has a lovely, delicate scent, too. Is your rose scented? Bye, Penny
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#10 of 24 posted
7 JUL 06 by
Anonymous-104317
Hi Penny...your buds look different than the early stages of mine...yours look totally pink, where mine are almost totally yellow, then turn pink as the "age"...however mine does have a very slight hint of a fragrance which I couldn't smell as good outside, but indoors you can sense some. Also, one branch will pop with about 6 buds, the middle one goes pink first while the others catch up going from yellow to pink...is yours a single bloom per branch?-SANDY
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#13 of 24 posted
10 JUL 06 by
Meschuee
Hello.How interesting! Yes, mine is all pink. I know roses of different colours could, theoretically, be grafted together, but it's more like to be a sport, don't you think? I'll do some looking, too. Good luck with the search. Bye,Penny.
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#14 of 24 posted
10 JUL 06 by
Meschuee
Hello again.I know this isn't your rose, but "Mutabilis" shows that it's possible to have two or three different coloured flowers on a rose at the same time.Penny
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#15 of 24 posted
10 JUL 06 by
Meschuee
Hello yet again.I've just found a site that states that roses can change colour palette (on the same bush) so that they are often not recognisable as being the same rose. I can't seem to paste the link, so I've typed it for you. http://www.ars.org/About_Roses/propagating-colour-palette.htmThe paragraph is roughly half-way down the page. Bye,Penny. :)
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Taking a look at the photos I do see the variety of colors...and this bush pops out some beauties...I'm still amazed to see the beautiful yellows go so pink! The hard part is that we might never know what it is. :(
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#17 of 24 posted
11 JUL 06 by
Meschuee
Yes, what a shame. You never know, you may come across the same rose in the future. Good luck, anyway.Penny
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Penny, I might not be 100% sure but I think it's narrowed down to Summer Fashion...and everything that I learned in order to guess should help me figure out the next one! I've got about 14 unknowns and/or ones that aren't behaving like what we thought they were! Although I'm still comforted knowing a dear friend gave me all these to start our garden, I will always be grateful that she shared her roses with us before she lost her battle to breast cancer. Thanks for all the help, suggestions and clues!
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#21 of 24 posted
12 JUL 06 by
RoseBlush
If you have that many unidentified roses, I strongly suggest you learn how to use the advanced search feature on the HelpMeFind site. It's a wonderful tool and you don't have to wait for someone to respond. I have written several posts with step-by-step instructions, so go to "Search Posts"; enter "Advanced Search"; then click to match the phrase exactly. You will find the instructions easy to follow and may be able to help others in their searches for identifications of their roses after you have used this tool yourself. Good Luck ! Smiles, Lyn, helpmefind.com
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LYN....Yes, I've been trying to learn all the steps to using that and need some guidance so I will go do a search for your posts, thanks. I think the best thing I'm doing now is just soaking up every little detail involved with each rose bush. I've even started a spreadsheet and given each one a code so I don't get mixed up. There are so many things to learn...we just appreciate the effort on this site to help those of us who are "new" to doing more than just viewing or smelling our roses. However I did cut some beauties just today and brought them inside...the weather is suppose to heat up by the weekend into the 100+ degrees and I prefer to view the blooms INDOORS! :) ...hmmmmm...love those fragrant ones! :) I'm headed over to search posts...THANKS!! -Sandy in Sacramento
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#23 of 24 posted
12 JUL 06 by
RoseBlush
I am glad you are going to try to use the HelpMeFind tools on your own. If you have problems, please let me know. We want the site to be easy for all users, no matter how experienced they are in using computers or growing roses. By the way, if you contact the volunteer group that maintains the rose garden at the Sacramento Cemetery, you will meet up with some very experienced and generous rosarians. They are always looking for new volunteers AND they love teaching what they know about roses. If I lived anywhere near there, I would grovel to have the opportunity to work with these people. Smiles, Lyn, helpmefind.com
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#18 of 24 posted
11 JUL 06 by
RoseBlush
From the photos, I would almost bet money that your rose is 'Summer Fashion'. I have grown the rose for several years and have finally given it away. To me, it seemed to be a weak plant that produced incredible blooms. Almost anything seems to stress the plant. (This year, it has looked absolutely wonderful...maybe because it knew it was leaving my garden.) The bloom form, the foliage and how the bloom ages are what tends to make me believe you have identified your rose. Smiles, Lyn, helpmefind.com
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Lyn, thanks for the extra confidence of it's name...I'm going to be watching it very closely to see if I can get more clues. This bush is well established, like many that we started our garden with and haven't given us any trouble. We started buying from a grower in Petaluma whenever we visit our favorite get-away...Bodega Bay! He's always got the exact rose we want, they always bloom as expected ... sometimes we just "window shop" around the grounds to see which one we will be buying another day! Thanks for helping me get EDUCATED about identifying roses!
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#24 of 24 posted
12 JUL 06 by
Meschuee
Hello. :)Really good that you think you know what your rose is......only a garden-ful left to identify! I'll take a look at that one. 've learned such a lot from looking for my roses. That is nice, to have the gift of roses from a friend no long with you.Bye,Penny.
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For us ...her gift has multiplied...my husband has always taken care of ours at home and then at his High School we started to care for a rose garden there that was once established, but neglected. We go in regularly (even over summer) to weed, mulch and fertilize and since it's right by their office...ALL the staff appreciates it! Plus, we've planted a couple new bushes in honor of our sons, working in education and the Army. (Hot Cocoa and Honor) The original roses there were given by another Rosarian years ago and so it's only fitting that we carry on tradition. My father and grandfather worked in a Nursery many years ago and I'm just blessed to have a spouse that will dead-head and fret over aphids! :) SANDY
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I love roses and put 12 in just because it was convenient...but soon learned to love care for them daily. I now have 22 beautiful roses and all my beds are free of any weeds but are well mulched with black mulch. Absolutely beautiful and so is my table with freshly cut roses daily. I am eager to learn more about roses.
Jean
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