HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
bob diller
most recent 28 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 28 JAN 08 by bob diller
Is this rose extinct? I'm collecting noisettes and would love to know a source for this one.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 25 APR by Patricia Routley
Ten years on, refer to "Juani de Temperley"' an Argentina foundling.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 28 APR by HubertG
From the Rosen-Zeitung 1892, page 79: Under the heading Favourite Roses, by Ketten Bros, Luxembourg.

"Lieblingsrosen ...

L'Idéal (Nabonnand 1888): Blume metallischgelb und rot, schattiert und verwaschen mit blendend goldgelb;"

My translation:
Favourite Roses ...
L'Idéal (Nabonnand 1888) Flower metallic-yellow and red, shaded and suffused with dazzling golden yellow;
Reply #3 of 3 posted 28 APR by Patricia Routley
Reference added.
most recent 15 OCT 16 SHOW ALL
Initial post 6 MAR 08 by bob diller
This is a great rose! It does well in poor locations, stays healthy in my no spray garden, and the blooms are a buttery flesh color this is very delicate looking. Anybody new to roses should give this rose a try, I think it is one of the all time greats. I have heard of many people having ones with rose virus that still do well, but I got mine from a virus free source and it is one of the more vigorous roses I grow, outgrown only by Super Dorothy, Rambling Rector and Golden Threshold. I have about 150 roses, so have much to compare it to.
Reply #1 of 9 posted 7 MAR 08 by billy teabag
I absolutely agree that Reve d'Or is one of the all-time greats.
We find it an extremely healthy, minimum-care evergreen rose that, once established, repeats its bloom over the whole year. Those lovely blooms are especially welcome in winter in our mild climate.
The foliage doesn't seem to be susceptible to mildew, and looks good all year round.
But you need to be prepared to give this rose a couple of years to get settled in. It didn't bloom prolifically for its first few years here, but now rarely seems to be without some flowers, and when in full flush it is a wonderful thing - the blooms have a very special charm.
This rose really seems to belong on the cusp of Noisette and Climbing Tea - combines the best qualities of both. It's very versatile. It grows well as a large, self-supporting mounded shrub, is very happy growing on a fence, or will happily climb pillars, screens or pergolas and other structures.
Definitely a full paid up member of the Reve d'Or fan club.
Reply #2 of 9 posted 1 MAR 09 by Jeff Britt
How does Reve D'Or compare to Madame Berard?
Reply #3 of 9 posted 1 MAR 09 by bob diller
Mme Berard was planted spring 2008, so I do have both, but can't compare yet. She grew about 15 feet last season with some sparse bloom, but I should be able to compare the two by this fall. She seems to settle in faster.
Reply #6 of 9 posted 3 MAR 09 by Jeff Britt
Thanks for the information. Nothing like head-to-head competition!
Reply #4 of 9 posted 2 MAR 09 by billy teabag
'Reve d'Or' is a Tea-Noisette type and 'Mme Berard' a Dijon Tea and there are differences characteristic of the classes.
For us, 'Reve d'Or' has canes and laterals that are more supple and pliable and it is evergreen in our climate - always very well clothed in healthy foliage. It has elongated leaflets with a healthy sheen and is not susceptible to mildew or black spot here..
It has prickles and sets hips.

"The rose sold as Adam", thought by many rosarians to probably be 'Mme Berard' has canes that are more stiff and rigid, many of which are thornless. (New canes may have some prickles, but they usually drop off as the wood ages, leaving very few prickles.)
The bloom is quite variable in colour and form, (see photos on both 'Mme Berard' and 'Adam' pages here) but one of the most recognisable faces of this rose shows the characteristic Dijon Tea form - firm petals, outer petals forming a circular outline holding a ruffled cup of inner petals.
It is susceptible to black spot here and will defoliate after a bout, but recovers reasonably quickly.
If not dead-headed, it seems to put so much energy into making hips that the vigour of the plant begins to suffer.
Because we have such mild winters here, I can't give any first hand comparisons of cold-hardiness, but from early references, 'Mme Berard' could be expected to be more cold tolerant than 'Reve d'Or'.
Reply #5 of 9 posted 3 MAR 09 by Jeff Britt
Thank you for providing such a complete and useful answer. It certainly makes the distinctions clear and points me toward planting Reve d'Or. San Francisco was an odd climate -- we never get frost or snow, much less a freeze, but it rarely gets hot here, even in high summer. And, though we receive no rain from May until November, we often have heavy, drippy fog in summer, especially in July and August. All this adds up to challenges to growing some roses. It sounds like Madame Berard would ball here during a foggy summer, and possibly suffer with blackspot as well. I also prefer the more flexible canes of Reve d'Or, even if they are armed with prickles.
You have saved my the disappointment of making a bad choice and am very grateful. Thanks!
Reply #7 of 9 posted 4 MAR 09 by billy teabag
Thanks Jeff - You're welcome.
Just hope I haven't accentuated the negatives too much!
It would be good if someone in the San Francisco area who grows both could give you more information about how they compare in your foggy part of the world.
Vintage Gardens Nursery praise 'Mme Berard' highly and describe it as 'sadly neglected'.
I would hate to be without either of these roses as they are both so very beautiful in their own way.
Reply #8 of 9 posted 14 MAR 10 by redwood rose
I grow both in Marin County, and agree with the last comments. It is not quite as foggy here as in SF, but very similar. My Reve de Or is a younger plant, but is more vigorous than Berard, with longer, thinner, more flexible canes. My Berard gets afternoon sun and was scorched badly on the older canes several yrs ago in a heat wave. I'm looking for another plant to put next to it since it only has one basal cane now and lopsided growth. Reve de Or gets morning sun, along with it's tea rose neighbors in the same bed, and they are all very very happy in that exposure. Msr. Tillier is in the same bed and is 10 x 10 feet! Teas and tea-noisettes love morning sun here! Next to Berard is Elie Beauvilain, another tea-noisette available from Vintage Gardens, both growing on a trellis fence. Elie is a much stronger plant, although the flowers aren't as large or showy as Berard's. Although Berard is harder to grow well, it is worth the extra effort in my opinion.
Reply #9 of 9 posted 15 OCT 16 by NikosR
In my climate, where powdery mildew is the primary fungal disease, Reve d' Or stays completely clean while 'so called Adam' suffers really badly. Both are young and I have some hope that 'so called Adam' may become a bit more resistant when older, since many Teas and Dijon Teas , in my climate, do partially outgrow their PM tendencies once mature.
most recent 28 SEP 16 SHOW ALL
Initial post 12 JAN 08 by bob diller
How is Chianti in regards to black spot. I have an organic garden and don't spray. I have admired photo's of this rose for years and would like to add it to my garden. I live smack in the middle of the black spot belt in the Southeast US.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 28 SEP 16 by cakemiks
Did you ever try it? Blackspot is also a big issue where we live in NC.
most recent 4 FEB 15 SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 FEB 08 by bob diller
Given the classification of this rose, I wonder at its parentage. It lacks the limber trainable canes that I'm used to being associated with Wichuriana ramblers. The canes are stiff, thick and armed with some of the most wicked blood thirsty thorns I've yet to encounter in a rose. Its growth is more like a large awkward shrub. The flower are single and pretty, a bright cherry color followed by numerous deep wine colored hips in the fall. Of the John Clements roses I've tried, I like this one the best, although I've only tried his "ramblers", none of which ramble very much, but all have been pretty. I will have to add a photo of this one to the database this spring when it blooms, as a tribute to John Clements.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 4 FEB 15 by Michael Garhart
I have been to Heirlooms many times, prior to its new owners. I do not actually recall this rose standing out from the other ramblers on their giant archway. They all blend together on that thing. If I ever do go there again, I will inspect it closely to report for here. From your description, it makes me wonder if it is not from Dortmund or Red Max Graf, which they had giant specimens of.
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