HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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Beautiful show of flowers, disease resistant, and wonderful fragrance. What more could one ask for? After the deer pruned mine the first year, and it re-bloomed in the fall, I cut it back by about a third after first blooming and it repeats late summer with a less abundant bloom. Grows fine in part-shade.
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Mmmmmhh... A pure Alba rose which repeats flowers? Sound very strange... Could you post a picture of flowers and foliage? Thank you!
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'Jacques Cartier' was in commerce masquerading as 'Queen of Denmark' in CA in the late 1990s. Perhaps that is what the poster had.
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To me, it seems very similar to Belle de Crecy. To be honest, MUCH TOO similar.
I suspect it's the same rose, or maybe a slight colour variation. Anyone has opinion?
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#1 of 2 posted
15 MAR 09 by
 jedmar
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A question justified, because 'Belle de Crécy' in commerce and in gardens seems certainly not to be the original rose, but a misidentification from the 1940s. Maybe someone has both roses in the same garden and can comment.
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I have both.I bought belle de crecy and marie tudor(different selllers).planted them side by side.marie tudor turned out to be a second belle de crecy.it would be glorious if my boula de nanteuil turned out to be my third belle de crecy.almost makes me wonder whether I might have yet more belles de crecy lurking in my garden.
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Initial post
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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We were given this rose as a gift and do not know how to care for it re temperature, sunlight, etc. please give me some information on how to care for this rose - I am afraid of it dying, I am not sure it is rea healthy at this moment. Thanks Kathy
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Souvenir de la Malmaison is a Bourbon rose with a wonderful fragrance. It is hardy to zone 5 which means it will survive in snow.The rose likes to be fertilzed twice, once after the first flush of blooms and then in the middle of summer and it prefers full sun. It is a slow grower but finally makes a bush about 4 feet tall.
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#3 of 8 posted
26 DEC 05 by
Unregistered Guest
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I agree with Patricia - this rose has absolutely no fragrance! It was the first rose I ever bought, on the recommendation of a nurseryman who said it had a wonderful fragrance, which is my major criteria for roses. I gave it to a friend, who also could not detect a whiff of anything!
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You are right. I didn't smell any scent from that rose at Chicago Botanical Garden.
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#2 of 8 posted
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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They are very hard to kill. I have had an enormous number of hybrid teas which became diseased and died within a few years. But I have had this one in zone 9B for about 20 years. It gets very little water and not much fertilizer and no special care whatever and yet it blooms multiple times per year with flowers of a gorgeous pink shade. We seldom have freezes this far south and when we do they are just for a day or two but it has never required any special care either winter or summer.
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No matter who gave you you plant, if it's not fragrant it's absolutely not Souvenir d. l. m.! Maybe it's not the most fragrant rose ever, nevertheless it definitely has to be classified as highly fragrant, half old rose and half tea rose.
Even old flowers retain a lot of scent, even on small young plants.
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#5 of 8 posted
15 MAR 09 by
Cass
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Hmmm. That's not completely true for every nose in every climate. I have a decent nose, but SdlM is not the fragrant in the garden in our dry Mediterranean climate. It helps to bring to rose into the house. Then the complexity of the fragrance can be appreciated. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there are noses that cannot detect the fragrance in my climate.
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I know what you mean... some varieties are prone to being smelled quite different by different noses and)or in different climates...
for example, Sombreuil: it's almost worldwide beloved (and even purposely grown) for its fragrance, but I only can find it rather bad smelling, which is a pity because I think it's a beautiful flower! Or Charles de Mills, rated as poorly or at best mildly fragrant in UK, which instead gives powerful and wonderful pure gallica scent in Italy (for everybody I asked about, at least)...
But I didn't think Sdlm was one of such varieties! There are many cultivars that seem not prone to this issue, and are always very fragrant to everybody everywhere.
I grew Sdlm (or I saw and smelled it!) in some very different climates here in Italy, and it was very constant in it fragrance, which I found every time being the same, even being not my favourite (I much prefer damask, gallica, alba tones, which you can find also in many bourbon or even modern roses) neither the strongest in my opinion (but always very well detectable for sure).
I find its scent similar, amongst modern roses, to that Jardins de Bagatelle, which also has somewhat similar colours, both in intensity and quality.
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#7 of 8 posted
15 MAR 09 by
Cass
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If your rose is strongly fragrant all the time and in garden, it is possible we are not growing the same rose, regardless of what the labels say. I'm not saying our rose in commerce is the right one or the wrong one, only that it is a different one. Only a miniscule proportion of the old roses in commerce have a clear, unequivocal history connecting them to a known, labeled cultivar in a respected botanical collection. The vast majority are found roses that have been assigned names by rosarians with different levels of expertise at identifying roses.
Or perhaps our noses which are similar in detecting the fragrance don't detect its intensity the same way. Many variables could be at work.
As for Charles de Mills, I believe there are two different roses being sold under this name. I have the one that smells like hay or straw. Even in the USA, there is an alternative, strongly fragrant rose sold as Charles de Mills.
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One of my favourites. Shapely rosette flowers, showing a beautiful button eye, with indefinite yet beautiful mix of lilac, pink, mauve and purple, slightly fading with age. Very charming, and... very difficult to reproduce in photos! There are very few pictures around that show B. D. C. colours with accuracy!
Fragrance is very strong and of very high quality, the purest gallica scent you can imagine. Heavenly.
The bush is low and compact, with typical healthy gallica foliage, which I like very much.
I find that "Boule de Nanteuil" os very, very similar. I suspect they could even be the same rose, or one a sport of the other.
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#1 of 7 posted
15 MAR 09 by
jedmar
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It seems however, that this rose is not the original, but came into commerce after 1940 under this name. There are too many differences to the early descriptions of 1836-1848.
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Mmmm...
Belle de Crecy "Raised by Roeser before 1836"
Boula de Nanteuil "Raised by Roeser in 1834"
Very similar, and bred by the same breeder in the same years... ;-)
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Early descriptions also refer at BdC es Hybrid China, which is very strange, being "our" BdC apparently a typical pure Gallica, with not even the snallest trace of china blood in foliage and flower appearance.
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#4 of 7 posted
15 MAR 09 by
jedmar
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Do your Belle de Crecy and Boula de Nanteuil sucker if grown on their own roots? Do they set hips?
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My Belle de Crecy suckers more than any other rose in my garden-she really colonises.
I have to move several other roses because she has suckered in amongst them.
She sets no hips.
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#7 of 7 posted
12 MAY 14 by
Hardy
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The paper 'Characterization and Genetic Relationships of Wild Species and Old Garden Roses Based on Microsatellite Analysis' (Scariot, Akkak and Botta, Torino, J. Amer. Soc. Hort. Sci. 131(1):66-73, 2006) shows that this rose is genetically extremely close to Conditorum, and not far from the Apothecary's rose. Your perceptions of it as a Gallica have been tentatively vindicated.
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