HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Initial post
16 OCT 09 by
Don H
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The July 8, 1956 edition of The Saint Petersburg Times reported that the parentage of Sterling Silver was "a cross between the well known hybrid tea rose, Peace, and a grey blue-lavender rose called Morning Mist".
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19560708&id=n9ANAAAAIBAJ&sjid=M3YDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5601,3780064
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Great information Don!
I thought 'Morning Mist' by Fisher might still be offered for sale, but when you go to the Brentwood Bay Nursery Website, it says they offer the Austin rose by the same name.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=38003
Apparently the Fisher version is out of commerce.
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#2 of 12 posted
16 OCT 09 by
Don H
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Morning Mist is a dead end as far as the lineage goes. Gladys listed it as a selfling of one of her other hybrids which she didn't name.
The roses that are listed in Gladys Fisher's patents are
Peace - patent 591, as female
Rapture - unpatented,as female
Rome Glory - patent 304,as male
Happiness - patent 911, as female
New Yorker - patent 823, as male
Golden Anniversary - patent 806, probably as female
Masquerade - patent 975, probably as male
Mission Bells - patent 923 as male
Talisman - unpatented, as female
R. M. S. Queen Mary - patent 249 as male
Rome Glory - unpatented, as female
Better Times - patent 23 as male
Orange Nassau - patent 350, as male
Floradora - unpatented as female
Fashion - patent 789 as male
Of these, Rapture is the only one that is a greenhouse rose and which looks to me like it might otherwise fit the bill as being grandparent to SS.
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Fascinating.
I would have bet money 'Grey Pearl' was lurking somewhere in the lineage of SS.
Mrs. Fisher must have been very pleasantly surprised when SS popped up.
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#4 of 12 posted
27 FEB 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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hmmm.....I actually read an article somewhere.....in fact it was from a book about rose names, and it talked about gray pearl as being one of the parents of sterling silver. I think that lineage would make a lot of sense because gray pearl is a very weak rose and sterling silver is not a particularly good grower from a whole variety of reports. Mine grows reasonably well and is healthy. Go figure. I live in pennsylvania. Maybe my climate is well suited for it.
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#5 of 12 posted
16 MAR 10 by
Don H
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Robert, it turns out that Morning Mist never made it to the marketplace. See
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1876&dat=19560530&id=rmgsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YMsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2951,3561950
I think you are correct about Grey Pearl lurking behind Sterling Silver. My guess (yet again) is that Morning Mist was an OP seedling of Lavender Pinocchio. The timing was right, and you've pointed out elsewhere the ability of Lavender Pinocchio to pass along fragrance.
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Fascinating. I bet you're right.
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The 1956 article said she'd not introduced it, however a bed of a lavender HT named Morning Mist grew at Rose Hills Memorial Park Rose Garden in Whittier, Ca until the late 1980s. I was permitted to take cuttings there several times and Morning Mist and Dennison Morey's Mountain Haze were two I tried to propagate and failed. They grew there until the rose gardens were removed and replaced with the Rose Hills Rose Trials.
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#9 of 12 posted
17 JAN 12 by
Don H
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Wow. Any chance you took photos of Morning Mist?
I do hope somebody in a suitable climate preserves VID Sterling Silver after Vintage closes.
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Hi Don, unfortunately, I don't think so. I don't remember photographing it and when permitted to make a cutting run, I would have been armed with a specific list of material to gather and the supplies necessary to accomplish it. The garden was nearly seventy miles from home and rush hour traffic as well as time to process the material were taken into consideration. I most often didn't carry my camera with me for fear of dropping or otherwise damaging or losing it. Those times, I was on a "mission"! The more I dig into this, the more I'm beginning to wonder if what we have ISN'T Sterling Silver, but perhaps Morning Mist? Weak plant, too few petals, etc. You know how easily things are mistaken and confused in the trade. And, you've probably experienced any lavender rose being responded to as "LOOK at the Sterling Silvers!"
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#11 of 12 posted
11 JUN 13 by
 Benaminh
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Don, University of California Davis Foundation Plant Services has an extensive VID list and is offering virus indexed Sterling Silver cuttings and budwood:
http://fpms.ucdavis.edu/rose.html
As of 07/10/13, listed under "Custom Services," they charge about USD $2,000 to clean any rose variety of virus, but require three plants and two years' time.
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#7 of 12 posted
16 MAR 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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Greast post Don! We should get someone to update that info. BTW, I found the book that said Grey Pearl was a parent. It's called: A Rose by Any Name: The Little-Known Lore and Deep-Rooted History of Rose Names
by Douglas Brenner and Stephen Scanniello.
I think your reference is much more reliable and accurate so I say we should definitely get that officially listed. (Nevermind, it already is.)
:) Thanks. Getting the lineage for this one is actually kind of a big deal, as almost all of the lavenders are derived from this plant it seems.
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I don't really doubt the Peace heritage. Or the Grey Pearl heritage. But I almost want to say Sterling Silver is 1/4 floribunda, which makes me wonder about Fashion. An example: Peace x (Grey Pearl x Fashion).
By the way, here is the link to the passage mentioned:
books.google.com/books?id=anq6v1LekNIC&pg=PP1&lpg=PP1&dq=A+Rose+by+Any+Name:+The+Little-Known+Lore+and+Deep-Rooted+History+of+Rose+Names&source=bl&ots=uifWgQ-jh4&sig=UmI6I4Y92OqTcOuWXv1FUoDoF6g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie1vHjl83TAhVL5GMKHclwAmsQ6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=sterling%20silver&f=false
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Initial post
4 DEC 11 by
Don H
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Another rose by this name has been introduced by Fryer, see their catalogue (2011)
www.fryers-roses.co.uk/images/Fryers-Roses-2011-Catalogue.pdf
Makes you wonder what good it is having an international naming registration process.
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#1 of 10 posted
4 DEC 11 by
jedmar
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Thank you! It seems that less and less breeders are registering with the ARS.
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The breeder of this rose together with two others has, not registered any of his roses in Australia, despite my personally approaching him and his being provided with the wherwithall to register. ARS has no knowledge of them. If breeders are choosing not to register their roses (what evidence is there?) it is hardly fair to point the finger at ARS. Unfortunately this breeder is very recently deceased, so the question of registration is now moot. The opportunity to become a part of Australia's rich heritage of rose breeding was offered.
For the record, Australia has a National Registrar and ARS is regularly supplied with details of roses bred here as distinct from every other member nation of WFRS. If the breeders refuse to register their roses, and member nations of WFRS will not establish national registrars, it is hardly the fault of ARS, who are doing their best under very difficult circumstances. ARS doesn't deserve the slings and arrows of those who obviously know little about their circumstances, and who may in fact be a little envious of the good works of American Rose Society as it performs its function with a considerable degree of accuracy and certainty.
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When the big breeders re-use rose names, it's hard for minor breeders to take the process seriously. We've seen an example recently of what looked like a code-name being changed when a rose was distributed by a large company.
Registering a rose without patenting it may not seem worthwhile, but the cost of getting adequate protection of breeders' rights may be prohibitive for amateurs.
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Dear Laurie,
Can you advise us on the use of the code name 'MELzules' used for Trevor Grant's 'Let's Celebrate' (see 2015 reference). I believe this code is incorrect and that TRG2 is the correct code name.
Thanks,
Patricia
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#5 of 10 posted
25 APR 17 by
Plazbo
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No offense intended but
"The opportunity to become a part of Australia's rich heritage of rose breeding was offered. "
Seems very arrogant/self important. The breeders rose is still offered and he still has a part in "Australia's rich heritage of rose breeding" without registering. To diminish his role because he refused to drink the kool-aid says more about the organisation than the breeders.
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It is also interesting to keep an eye on the recent registrations here: http://www.stsrv.com/irar/newregis.asp . In all the years I have been watching this list, I have never seen a Meilland, or a Kordes, etc, name appear on the list. Why is that, I wonder? I also think the credibility of the registration process is called into question when some breeders choose to register ridiculously large numbers of roses... to be part of the rich tapestry of rose breeding culture in Australia, maybe???
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#7 of 10 posted
26 APR 17 by
jedmar
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Yes, the ARS/ICRA registrations are in the overwhelming majority from the Anglosaxon world, with a sprinkling of Asian and a few amateur European breeders. Representatives of the major European Rose breeding companies mention will have the answer, but I am guessing that the ICRA Registration does not give the commercial protection a patent application gives and is therefore of less value if you are in business on an international scale. For amateur breeders it is probably still less expensive than the patent process. Finally, for US breeders it is still a valid local association, maybe due to requirements of the show culture? Rose Shows with prizes are long gone in Continental Europe.
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Hi Jedmar, the registration process and the patenting process are two mutually exclusive processes. The registration process is free and coordinated by the International Society for Horticultural Sciences (through the ARS) in an effort to catalogue and document the creation, identity and origin of new plants varieties. The plant patenting process is (here in Australia) a national government run incentive to provide breeders with some form of protection and access to a period of guaranteed income exclusivity. It is indeed an expensive process. A rose does not have to be registered in any way with any horticultural society to be eligible for a patent. This is an important distinction to be made for up-and-coming rose breeders who often mistakenly assume registration automatically provides protection of their intellectual property.
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#10 of 10 posted
28 APR 17 by
Plazbo
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Correct, the patent (aka PBR in Aus) will set a person back a few thousand. An alternative may be to trademark (only a couple hundred) the name....sure it won't stop anyone propogating the rose but they'd need to do it under an entirely different name to sell it which maybe more hassle than it's worth because it'll be a year or two behind marketting.
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Initial post
18 NOV 08 by
Don H
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Seiryu means Blue Dragon in Japanese.
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The sad thing is I knew this from Japanese video games. I'm not sure if that's sad or remarkable, lol.
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Amazing color.
I take it this is a florist rose?
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The lineage implies so. I imagine that mauve florist roses are a big deal in Japan.
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Did You sow these seeds? And if so, what was the outcome?
Were they hand-pollinated with a known variety(or species)?
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#1 of 1 posted
14 DEC 16 by
Don H
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These were OP seeds from Cliff Orent whose massive rose collection means they could have been a cross with anything. Regrettably, no, I did not germinate them. I offered up the seeds at the time but nobody took me up on them. Is your interest in breeding with it? PM me if you want to take this further.
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