HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 3 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 27 AUG 15 by goncmg
Might this be Sunbright, released by J&P in 84? The pics look similar with that white-cream edge.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 21 JUN 16 by Dianne's Southwest Idaho Rose Garden
Sunbright is a possibility I am still considering. There is something that made me hesitate, but I am still comparing.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 22 APR by Michael Garhart
Sunbright is thorny, hates cold or wet winters, and is stiffer.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 24 APR by Dianne's Southwest Idaho Rose Garden
Yes, it definitely is not Sunblest. I grow most of the yellows in my garden and have compared them in detail. This is a mystery!
Reply #4 of 8 posted 25 APR by Patricia Routley
I pencilled in my scribble book to suggest 'Norris Pratt', but that only grows to 18".
And then 'Royal Gold' 1957, but that seems to have a rounder leaf than the foundling.
I hate to say it again (I am always saying it!) more photos of the different features are needed, rather than umpteen in-your-face bloom photos.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 25 APR by goncmg
Maybe it was a J&P Test Rose that was never introduced. Maybe it fell upon us all from the heavens above. Maybe we all are trying too much and displacing too much of our "love of roses" idealism on this one. It was found in front of a MOTEL for crying out loud. So it HAD to be pretty much available to consumers who were not shopping esoterics. 'Katy Road Pink' ended up being CAREFREE BEAUTY for crying out loud. And I think the answer with this one is close to that once we all take a breath. To our rabid love of roses credit everyone on this thread, we also know this is NOT a pre 1960 rose and likely, very likely not a pre 1980 rose.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 25 APR by Michael Garhart
"shopping esoterics"

You mean plant saviors (hehe).
Reply #7 of 8 posted 25 APR by Michael Garhart
It could be an Armstrong or old Weeks roses. Some of them never gained traction, but had commercial distribution for short spans of time. There were a few others like that from the 1960-1980s era that are no longer present.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 3 MAY by Michael Garhart
Also considering 21st Century, or other CR roses. They're huge in Texas, where this was found.
most recent 9 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 16 JAN 12 by goncmg
I DISLIKE almost no rose. But I DISLIKE Redgold. We were living in Chico, CA, summer temps in the valley are 95+, often over 100, there is no humidity. NONE. REDGOLD got these weird spots, lost all leaves......we had no idea, had to look it up...............BLACKSPOT?! Yes, in -7% humidity REDGOLD got blackspot. And the blooms would fade and fry in the sun far more so than many...............the plant is sturdy, that I will say, but if I had to answer the question "What roses do you think are morbidly over-rated and for no apparent reason" REDGOLD would be at the top of my list. So bad, it is, in my experience that a few summers ago a grocery store in Columbus has this for sale................the plants were fresh out of the greenhouse and I DO love to "rescue" a rose.............but I just walked on by................Columbus is hotter and wetter than Miami June-September...........defoliated with blackspot in Chico????? NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dislike this rose. I SAID IT!!
Reply #1 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
Add Rumba and Charisma to this list and you have my full agreement! I like brilliantly colored roses; oranges, reds and yellows don't hurt my eyes and really good ones are a delight, but none of these have plants under them worth growing and none of them have "clean" colors, turning very muddy and dirty rather quickly.
Reply #2 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by goncmg
I am on St Croix now, I brought MR12 with me and a few old rose annuals, 81 being one of it is an artricle about most resistant varieties and CHARISMA CHARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALLY????? LOL............because I agree...........going back to '49, Masquerade really never got topped other than color intensity..............Roman Holiday comes to mind, too...........and Matador...........of all the ones we just mentioned Matador had the best color but good LORD it is a mini-flora by today's standards and yes, the one that tells you there MIGHT be bs in town by running through the streets, defoliated..........
Reply #3 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by Nastarana
I remember when Orchard Supply was puching Redgold in CA, back in the 90s or early 00s I think. There would be a row of half a dozen of nothing but Redgold. Of all possible roses, why that one?
Reply #4 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by goncmg
did you choose your name here, NASTARANA by accident or do you love that little rose? !!!! :-)
Reply #5 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by Nastarana
I did grow Nastarana when I lived in CA, as well as other noisettes. I liked all of them very much. Nastarana had the purest white color and the best fragrance.

I just learned on the Gardenweb, that the name is Persian and apparently has a much longer and more historic lineage than I had realized.
Reply #6 of 12 posted 14 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
I actually loved this rose, but hated the blackspot. Otherwise, I loved it. But I live next to temperate rain forest, sheltered by rivers, valleys, and mountains. Arid weather is rare here.
Reply #7 of 12 posted 8 APR by drossb1986
See, although my Redgold did get a little blackspot, I have quite a few roses that get it way worse (Neil Diamond, Stainless Steel, Rock & Roll, Blue River, name a few). And, for a body bag rose, it has been very vigorous. It's a little dull right before the petals fall off, but when it's still a bud it's extremely stunning. If it's a bad rose for this type of color combo, I wonder what a good one would be?
Reply #8 of 12 posted 8 APR by Michael Garhart
Some of us are currently trying out the new Citiscape Firebird. We'll see how that goes. There is Sheila's Perfume, but it's more of a grandiflora. It has huge blooms.

By the way, my Parade Day is really healthy. It's from the same line as Neil Diamond and Rock & Roll. It seems to have been spared the issues. The color is less brilliant though, but I am okay with that, because it smells nice and cuts well. And it's not flopping everywhere like ND and R&R can do. Has a similar plant structure to Oktoberfest.
Reply #9 of 12 posted 8 APR by Michael Garhart
A few others to consider: Tequila Sunrise. Gets a little BS. Short HT plant. Blooms last forever, but they need deadheaded immediately because they stay on the plant too long.

Quite a few minis and minifloras in this color type, but most have issues as well. But they're mostly okay. My favorite was Dee Bennett, but its quite cold tender.

Flutterbye is a decent pillar rose in this color type, and The Magician is a good climber in this color type. And there is the famous Playboy, which is love or hate, depending if singles are desired.

In Europe, there are (used to be?) more floribundas in this color range. Well, at least in my books anyhow.
Reply #10 of 12 posted 9 APR by goncmg
Michael, I LOVE Tequila Sunrise! Great call!!!! I got it in error in the late 80's/early 90's from Hortico (of course, lol) and really liked it! In Ohio always killed to the ground in winter but came back short, fat, strong, and always gave a stunning 1st spring bloom. Great foliage. Probably deserved to be better known that it is.
Reply #11 of 12 posted 9 APR by Rupert, Kim L.
I had Tequilla Sunrise eons ago, rooted from a friend's British import plant. It could be quite pretty and it had sepals which impressed me as being worthy of trying to mine cresting from...EXCEPT, in the mid desert, all I had to do was walk by it with any nitrogen, not actually apply it, but walk by it with it and the plant threw vegetative centers in every bloom. Some were so extreme, they had only a few petals, the rest was all malignant looking growths of multiple buds and deformed parts. The rest of the plant and all new growth shoots were gorgeous and totally normal looking. It was just the flower buds themselves. The hotter it got, the more it proliferated. I finally dug it out and gave it to a friend who didn't care. It grew in the "booze bed" along with Champagne Coctail; Glenfiddich; Foster's Wellington Cup and others with "booze" names.
Reply #12 of 12 posted 9 APR by goncmg
Kim! :-) I miss being on HMF and love this is how we met all those years ago! I did not have the veggie issues with Tequila Sunrise but I can soooooo see how it would be a variety that would do just that. Stout/fat/eager/thick/hard....petals, leaves, stem a little too fat for the cardboard bloom......for sure................and Glenfiddich just gave me a throw back to Edmunds when Fred and Winnie still owned it and she'd write that catalogue.................Whiskey Mac!
most recent 9 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 27 SEP 12 by goncmg
Havd not grown this one in years, remember fondly the color which was always almost white on the very outside petals and also recall there being a unique sort of "squareness" to the blooms..........Jackson and Perkins gave this one a lot of hype late 70's/early 80's.....maybe not an incredible rose but in the 4 or 5 years I grew it, a really solid rose.......and another one that amazes me has been not only left in the dust but really left in the dust and barely available...................I think it was a J&P rose of the year? Maybe 1977????
Reply #1 of 7 posted 24 APR 16 by Nastarana
New Day/Mabella is being sold at Walmart this year. Seems someone in Tyler decided to revive it. I can never understand how the wholesale companies decide which off patent roses to propagate.
Reply #2 of 7 posted 7 SEP 16 by dan8
I also find it funny, I was able to find Christian Dior and the florist rose Sonia at Walmart of all places.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 12 SEP 16 by Patricia Routley
Goncmg - if you have the time, would you please take a look at a foundling of mine
"Hill Farm Two-Tone Yellow"
I have often wondered if it could be 'New Day'
Reply #5 of 7 posted 8 APR by goncmg
2 years ago! And I JUST got the notification for this! Patricia, 75% of me says New Day/Mabella. 25% of me says no? The leaf is spot on. And that blackspot, lol. I recall the variety having a very boxy, square bloom. I admit I may be "off" on that? In the past 2 years what have you uncovered???? The leaf is spot on.
Reply #6 of 7 posted 8 APR by Patricia Routley
So good to see your name again, goncmg. If you have that little doubt, then I do too. I haven't really discovered anything new, but I haven't really been searching - there always seems too many other things to be done.
Reply #4 of 7 posted 8 APR by drossb1986
Do you recall how the disease resistance for New Day was? I love yellow roses, but currently only have St. Patrick (which I actually can't stand) and Gold Glow (which I love) as yellow HT's. I'm always tempted to save New Day, but I haven't jumped off that bridge yet. Is it worth the efford?
Reply #7 of 7 posted 9 APR by goncmg
I recall a decent amount of blackspot. Yellow and released in the 70's, unless you are in Palm Springs it is going to blackspot. I recall it being a bit healthier than Oregold and King's Ransom if that helps. And Patricia, the bloom is what is throwing me because I recall New Day/Mabella having an almost squareness about the bloom that I am not seeing here...........
most recent 8 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 15 MAY 13 by goncmg
Just got this one as a sub from Heirloom...............actually hate striped roses and put it on my alt list as a dare and wow, joke on, what am I to expect? How sickly is this one in humid 6a Columbus? Is it really striped?Does it set hips? Is there any reason I should keep it and not "gift" it away?
Reply #1 of 14 posted 16 MAY 13 by Patricia Routley
I don't have this rose, but it seems, that yes it is striped. It did not have consistently good reports in New Zealand and I suspect that it may not be healthy in your humid climate. According to the Australian patent, the hips are medium to large and pitcher shaped. There are a few more references to be read now.
Reply #2 of 14 posted 16 MAY 13 by Nastarana
I consider O & L to be a gimick. I have never seen one that was not a puny, unattractive specimen. You might want to try a rigorous fertilizer regimen, to bring out its' best growth and color.
Reply #3 of 14 posted 16 MAY 13 by goncmg
Thanks Nastarana and Patricia! Yeah, I figured this one would be a "dud" and I'll see what I can do with it.....why I listed it as a sub when I don't even LIKE striped roses is beyond me, guess I wanted to tempt the fates. Maybe it will surprise me, I will put it on the same "medicine" schedule that Soleil d'Or and Golden Showers get: a little spritz of Rose Pride each and everyday.....
Reply #4 of 14 posted 4 DEC 13 by Simon Voorwinde
I grow it in Tasmania, Australia, with no care at all... it's a tall strong plant.
Reply #5 of 14 posted 5 DEC 13 by Margaret Furness
It was very good in my sister's garden in the Adelaide Hills - zone 9b, Mediterranean climate with dry summers. Nice effect with the burgundy leaves.
Reply #6 of 14 posted 5 DEC 13 by Lyn G
It was a dawg in my San Diego garden. It was the first rose I ever shovel pruned ... and I still have no regret. I do like and still grow other McGredy roses, but this one .... not for me.

Reply #7 of 14 posted 1 MAY 16 by LaurelZ
Can you be more specific about why you did not like it? I saw it in a nursery, and I am posting. It looks ok, its not flopping. The foliage, although I did not get a shot looked very attractive and shiny. It appears that Weeks has reclassified Oranges and Lemons as a shurb rose.
Reply #9 of 14 posted 4 JUL 16 by Lyn G
Sorry to be so late responding ...

In my experience, roses are regional. 'Oranges and Lemons' just did not like my San Diego climate. That does not necessarily mean that it will not do well for you.

When I moved to the mountains of northern California, roses that did exceptionally well for me in San Diego did not like the climate up here. Often the success of a rose depends upon where you are gardening.
Reply #10 of 14 posted 4 JUL 16 by LaurelZ
thank you, but it was sold out. It has nice looking leaves.
Reply #8 of 14 posted 27 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
It's not a bad rose. Blooms well. Color is nice. Survives decently. Average health.

The bad part is the plant architecture, which does not fit into any practical idea. It is not quite a pillar. It is not a shrub or floribunda. It's very floppy. It can be grown decently inside a pillar structure, where it can sort of flop over the top.
Reply #11 of 14 posted 8 APR by drossb1986
I'll add to this...I grew this one when it first came out. In my experience it was a very disease resistant stripe, very bright. However, the blooms were small, you couldn't really cut them as they aren't really on long enough stems, and it throws these giant arching canes. I don't know if it would grow better as a sorta-climber or what. It was just odd and awkward, not necessarily bad.
Reply #12 of 14 posted 8 APR by Andrew from Dolton
The first time I saw a picture of this rose I fell in love and had to have it. I adore striped roses. Floribundas don't grow so well in my garden so I expected to have to put up with extreme blackspot for a couple of years then remove a half dead plant. But not so. It is tolerably healthy with me and flowers on and off all season, never putting on a big display but a continual one. The dark coloured foliage against the flowers adds another dimension to its appeal. However my only criticism is that when out of flower it is a rather unattractive leggy shrub, so I grow plenty of other plants around it and ignore it to the best of my ability when not in bloom. Never growing very high, by the end of the season it just about manages to get 1 metre tall.
Reply #13 of 14 posted 8 APR by LaurelZ
I was able to buy one and I find it to rapid growing, but not leggy. The flowers are small, but don't sag. I suggest maybe its not getting enough sun light or the soil is poor. I also suggest pruning overly long canes to encourage more wide growth.
Reply #14 of 14 posted 8 APR by Andrew from Dolton
It hates the cool wet summers here, if the flowers weren't so striking I wouldn't grow it.
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