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Initial post
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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I am looking for a rose I remember from my Mother's house in the 70s. It had profuse clisters of small double blooms, in red. She called in Lady Banksia. As far as I know, Lady Banksia only comes in white or yellow. However, someone told me that Dortmund rose used to be referred to as 'red Lady Banks'. I looked at DOrtmund, and it looks kind of close, except the blooms aren't double. Is there a double form of this? Or do you have any other ideas as to what this rose might be - tall shrub form, lots of clusters of small double red blooms. Small med - dark green foliage. Please help! Thanks.
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#1 of 5 posted
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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Hi Tracy, just a guess but if the rose was from the 70's it could be 'Improved Blaze'. It was offered by the tens of thousands about that time. One does'nt see it that much anymore. There are no double forms of 'Dortmund' that I know of and I've never heard it called "Red Lady Banks". Thare are lots and lots of tall growing roses with red clustered flowers. Your rose could also be 'Paul's Scarlet'. Good luck in your search.. Robert
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#2 of 5 posted
18 DEC 08 by
MLB
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Take a look at the rose rambler, Chevy Chase!
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if it flowered all the time it would be clg red cascade otherwise it would be most like red excelsa.both can be grown as weeping standards or as climbers and shrubs
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#4 of 5 posted
30 MAY 09 by
Mylissa
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It could be Eutin which is a floribunda but it gets no more that 3 ft tall. It could also be Europeana which has small red clusters.
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#5 of 5 posted
31 MAR 10 by
kev
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the rose i believe you are refering to is catherine banks.It is a very small red clg rose.
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Initial post
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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What is the Sombreuil Rose a hybrid of? Or how did it become a hybrid, meaning what characteristics did the maker of this rose need/want? please answer as soon as possible!!!
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#1 of 14 posted
4 MAY 03 by
Unregistered Guest
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The family tree of a rose can fill a page but if you look up Sombreuil on HelpMeFind and then click on the paratage. This will give you the information you want.
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Note that the listing for the rose in commerce as 'Sombreuil' has been updated. The actual parentage is unknown.
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#3 of 14 posted
26 APR 06 by
William
Its parent is Gigantesque x Unknown seedling. Sombreuil Antique Climber was created around 1850. This is all I know. William Jackson & Perkins Customer Service |
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I've seen that parentage. Do you have a reference?
Trouble is that no one seems to be able to find a plant of it before Wyant introduced Colonial White.
The historical rose is the Tea, 'Mlle. de Sombreuil' which see.
This is not to detract from the quality of this great climber.
Mel
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#6 of 14 posted
28 APR 06 by
William
When Jackson & Perkins acquired the Sombreuil we were also given privy to some of its history. Don't know much more than what I've already stated. I'm corresponding with our horticulturalist Mike Cady hoping he has more information. William Jackson & Perkins Customer Service
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William -- Suggest you send Mr. Cady to Vintage Gardens.
Jeri
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I will be very interested as to when and from whom J&P received the rose J&P sells as Sombreuil. Particularly interesting would be any reference to Roses of Yesterday and Today in that provenance.
Mel
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See reply page:
This rose is not the historic rose, 'Mlle. de Sombreuil,' which was bred from 'Gigantesque.'
It is not a Climbing Tea Rose
It is not a Tea Rose
It is a magnificent climbing rose, of probable Wichuriana origin.
Parentage, date, and creator (if any) are unknown, and will probably remain unknown forever.
Jeri Jennings
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sombrueil is a clg tea bred by robert in 1850 it is cross of Reine MARIE Henriette,a clg ht
and Bardou Job, a cross of a bourbonxht both unknown.
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#10 of 14 posted
21 MAY 09 by
 Cass
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The rose documented on this page is not a climbing Tea, but rather a large-flowered climber. Nor is Mlle de Sombreuil, the Tea rose of the same name, a climbing Tea.
This Sombreuil is a large-flowered climber introduced in the late 40's or early 50's. It's parentage is unknown. Please check Modern Roses 12 for a long-awaited clarification that this rose is in no way an Old Garden Rose, despite the spurious introduction date listed in Modern Roses of 1880.
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#11 of 14 posted
21 MAY 09 by
jedmar
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I never heard of the parentage with Reine Marie Henriette and Bardou Job for 'Sombreuil' before. Do you have a source for that?
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Both 'Reine Marie Henriette' and 'Bardou Job' were bred well after 1850, so they cannot be the parents of Robert's 1850 'Sombreuil'/ 'Mlle de Sombreuil'.
Does this parentage apply to another rose, another breeder?
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#13 of 14 posted
21 MAR 10 by
kev
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sombreuil is a tea rose ,as to what its parentage is it would be speculation as many of the roses pre 19oo were haphazard cross with little or no records to the crossingings being kept.record keeping for roses really only became the art form it is now with the inception of the struggle for breeders right spear headed by antoine and francis meilland and robert pyle.
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#14 of 14 posted
21 MAR 10 by
jedmar
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The Tea rose by Robert is now listed as 'Mademoiselle de Sombreuil', while the name 'Sombreuil' is attached to this unknown Climber - an unfortunate decision of the ARA.
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Initial post
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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Does Graham Thomas work as a climbing rose? I want to put it up against the house brick that faces west but is shaded by late afternoon sun. I live in Seattle, WA.
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#1 of 9 posted
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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yes, I have seen it grown as a climber. sounds like the location you're suggesting would be perfect.
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#3 of 9 posted
2 JUL 03 by
Anonymous-321
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I agree. I grow Graham Thomas against a north facing fence where it reaches 6-7feet. I live in East Anglia UK. Hope this helps. Ray
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#4 of 9 posted
27 APR 07 by
Unregistered Guest
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I am not sure how you can KEEP it from climbing. I got a 5 inch tall plant last Feb. by August it filled out a trellis. This spring despite my pruning it back pretty hard it is absolute huge and covered with blooms. We had many, many 100 degree days last summer and it never stopped blooming. yes--the thing will climb like mad and bloom all summer. Mine is in a pot by the way. (BIG pot) it is a big rose.
Betsy
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I'm Zone 7 in NC and was told GT would grow as a climber. I've had it since 2002 and it's never gotten over 6'
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It will in climates like Southern California where there is no real winter and a longer growing season.
Smiles,
Lyn
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In my mother's garden in Marin County, California (on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco) it has grown to 10 feet tall, and would probably be taller if I didn't keep after it and prune it down each January. This is one Austin rose that really grows BIG in California.
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Graham easily achieved 10 feet here in CA's low desert region as well.
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it is one that david austin sugests in his climbers list as being good for just that purpose or as a shrub.
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#10 of 9 posted
6 MAR 10 by
kev
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yes it does.it is one of the taller austin roses.
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Initial post
25 FEB 04 by
Anonymous-797
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Can this rose grow in zone 4? Are there two different kinds of this rose... a climber and a bush?
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This rose is classified as a Boubon climber but it does take time to finally climb. It can also be kept as a large shrub by just pruning it back hard in the spring. Also it can be grown in semi shade but you won't get as many blooms. It is also prone to black spot which shade tends to increase. Zone 4 is too cold for this rose as zone 6 is about it's limit.
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#2 of 8 posted
25 FEB 04 by
Unregistered Guest
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My Wayside Garden catalog lists it as a zone 5-9 climber. Most references say 8-12' tall. Some may grow it as a bush by cutting it back severly. I'd say you'd be pushing your luck growing it in zone 4, but if you can find the right spot for it, like a protected, warm, south facing wall, and mulch heavily to get it thru the winter it might be worth trying. I just planted one a few weeks ago, but I'm a zone 5-6. There are some rugosa hybrid climbers that are zone 3 that you may find suitable.
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I have been growing this rose in the semi-shade for the last three years...seems to be doing alright. i suppose it would do better in the sun, but that is not an option for me at the moment. i am in a zone 5 (in canada)
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#4 of 8 posted
7 NOV 03 by
Unregistered Guest
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You may wish to look at Douglas Green's book "Tender Roses for Tough Climates". He grows roses in Ontario in Zone 4 using a simple method he's developed. I notice that Zephirine Drouhin is mentioned in the index. Good luck!
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#5 of 8 posted
23 APR 04 by
Amy
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I have three Zephirine Drouhin that made it unscathed through our winter with many -20 F days.
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check rogers roses site.he details that information.
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#7 of 8 posted
30 MAY 09 by
Mylissa
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This is a zone 6 rose at best. It's great but it has a tendency to get fungus in humid climates... one of it's attributes is that it is nearly thornless... If you do a rose search within Find My Rose it lists the hardiness zone of any rose that you are searching...
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#8 of 8 posted
6 MAR 10 by
kev
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yes you can grow it. based in my plants i would say it is more of a shrub rose. it does repeat.
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