HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 18 JUN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 18 JUN by jim1961
I'll be trying this in Central Pa zone 6a (no spray) here soon... Just ordered it...
most recent 16 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 4 SEP 13 by jim1961
Hi all,

Sweet Aftons blooms blew within 24 hours here... I did not care for the scent either.
Blackspotted really bad here! In a no spray garden I had to shovel pruned it!
Bloom size was on average 3" ...

Reply #1 of 1 posted 16 MAY by Lavenderlace
Hi Jim! I had ordered this because the relatives of Charlotte Armstrong agree with my nose so much. I'm SO curious about the scent. She hasn't arrived yet but I'll be sure to keep the shovel handy, LOL!
most recent 4 MAY HIDE POSTS
Initial post 4 MAY by jim1961
MOTH has been very disease resistant here no spray in Central Pa.... :-)
most recent 8 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 5 SEP 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
As a drought-tolerant rose, Miracle on the Hudson doesn't like wet potting soil and acidic rain. Saw a bunch of them in pots at Home Depot with lowest leaves turn yellow from weeks of spring rain. Rain in Chicagoland has pH 4.5, versus 5.6 on the West Coast.
Reply #1 of 13 posted 5 SEP 17 by Lyn G
In my opinion, such broad generalizations such as the definition of the ph of rain on the West Coast is more misinformation than information. It's a BIG West Coast.
Reply #2 of 13 posted 6 SEP 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Here's the government link where I get the data of pH of rain across USA - long list of specific pH for specific region. pH of 5.6 for the West coast is Wikipedia's generalization, NOT mine. Best to argue with Wikipedia directly.
Reply #3 of 13 posted 6 SEP 17 by Lavenderlace
Do they update it every year or is it a fairly stable estimation of every year? Interesting data to ponder in the mix of things!
Reply #4 of 13 posted 6 SEP 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
The link I posted previously is the latest-data composed by government in 2001 to the pH of rain across U.S.A. For a better map of acid-rain across U.S.A., shaded by different colors to show pH range dated in 1994, see below link. With more industrialization in recent years, the pH range would be more acidic than what's compiled in 1994.

My alkaline clay is a good buffer against acid-rain. In my garden-walkway, where I dumped coarse sand on top of alfalfa hay, the acid rain "melted" the fine-sand particles (they disappeared, even with a dozen bags of sand), what's left are tiny colorful pebbles that were in bagged coarse sand. Acid-rain converted hard-minerals into SOLUBLE fertilizer and the weeds went crazy in that sandy-walkway. I dumped the sub-yellowish clay plus rocks (dug below 2 feet) at the end of my garden .. I don't even bother rake it, or smooth it out. After a few months, the acid rain smoothened that out into a flat surface, but no weeds can grow in such heavy bad-clay. Amazing how acid-rain can flatten out lumpy rock-hard-clay, as well as making sand-particles disappear. That explains why Val who works for a rose-nursery in Florida plant roses a few inches. above ground, since the sand sinks down with acid-rain-erosion.
Reply #5 of 13 posted 6 SEP 17 by Lavenderlace
Super info, thanks for posting!

By the way, pretty sure that Jim in PA, has posted some marvelous pictures of MotH. I think he's in Z5 or 6 but it's very rainy there. Maybe he'll see this and chime in because he's definitely figured out how to grow this rose!
Reply #6 of 13 posted 6 SEP 17 by Lyn G
Straw ...

I am not arguing with anyone. I am speaking from experience. I know the ph in both my soil and water in my southern California garden was very different that what I now have in my garden in the mountains of northern California.

I think you are smart enough and know enough about roses that you can use good judgment to determine whether or not you should post a generalization like this, no matter what the source of information.

When a rose fails to thrive, there are often more than one variables at play that causes poor performance of the plant. Ph is only one variable. In your garden it may be a determining factor, but it's not a universal problem. Many roses can tolerate a wide range of ph and thrive quite well as long as they get the other resources they need to thrive.

I can understand why you focus so much on ph, but I think it's important that you evaluate the data you share more carefully.
Reply #7 of 13 posted 6 SEP 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Lyn: The info. I shared above took me at least 1 hour of research, I posted that 1st in Organic Rose forum years ago, others from South Africa, Pakistan, and Canada also contributed to that shared experience on acidic rain. It's more useful to honestly share about one's roses than nit-picking & criticizing & lecturing and controlling others.

OWN-ROOT roses behave differently at different pH, versus grafted on SAME ROOTSTOCK such as Dr. Huey which likes alkaline. ROOTSTOCK customize roses to fit one's locality better. In my current alkaline clay, my 110+ varieties are all OWN-ROOTS (bred from different soil & climate), plus a few same varieties on Dr. Huey or Multiflora.

pH level is also a factor in rooting DIFFERENT roses from cuttings and in growing roses from seeds. The reason why I posted on this drought-tolerant rose in a wet & acidic pot is it gave me insight to root cuttings better during flash flood. I have been growing roses since my 20's, but didn't get into own-root roses until 7 years ago. I'm in mid 50's, have 30+ years of experience, and if I count roses from my last house of acidic clay (grafted on Dr. Huey), it's way over 150 varieties.

In 2011 Ingrid in Antique Rose forum was hurt in the same way by you, and now I am stabbed with your sarcastic knife under a friendly mask. I'm off the comment section for good, but still post pictures in HMF (that's safe from nit-picking). My purpose of posting is to cheer & support & appreciate others & share my locality & help cold-zoners, but I still get lectured & criticized and lost sleep over this last night. There's a difference between honest sharing about one's roses, versus your domination and control. NOT WORTH IT.
Reply #8 of 13 posted 6 SEP 17 by Patricia Routley
There isn't a sarcastic sliver in Lyn's very friendly face! She is an extremely valued HelpMeFind administrator who devoted years to helping others to grow roses. I really hope that you mean you are off HelpMeFind for good.
Reply #9 of 13 posted 6 SEP 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
I know Lynn since 2011 .. used to chat with her weekly via e-mail & in forums. Yes, I'm off for good & you get your wish. You gave me great idea NOT to post anything in HMF, including pictures. Praise God for this incident, it's to my advantage to be off: more time with family & true friends. Now I understand why people give info. in forums, but not in HMF.
Reply #10 of 13 posted 7 SEP 17 by Give me caffeine
Well, I suppose we can call today the Last Straw.
Reply #11 of 13 posted 6 APR by jim1961
MOTH does great here in Central Pa no spray! Stays clean the entire season! I really
like this rose!...winters well here also...We get alot of rain but it does not effect MOTH...
Reply #12 of 13 posted 6 APR by Lavenderlace
Fantastic shiny leaves Jim!
Reply #13 of 13 posted 8 APR by jim1961
Thanks Lavenderlace!
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