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Jay-Jay
most recent 24 NOV HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 24 NOV by Jay-Jay
How do they keep this rose-bush maintained that low, for it's a rambler/climber making canes up to 6m per year.
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Reply #1 of 2 posted 24 NOV by Margaret Furness
I think the photo is deceptive - the hedge is about 1.8m high. Even so, the canes would have to be trained sideways or cut back each year.
I grew Albertine years ago, before I knew that ramblers have to be kept up off the ground to stop them making new colonies. It's not a nice rose to deal with.
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Reply #2 of 2 posted 24 NOV by Jay-Jay
It grabs and stabs you.
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most recent 21 NOV SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 18 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
Does anyone know how this rose grows in a cool wet climate?
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Reply #1 of 35 posted 18 NOV by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I've heard 'Ena Harkness' is better for cooler climates.
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Reply #2 of 35 posted 18 NOV by Marlorena
I don't have it, but I would just give it a try and see for yourself... I'm afraid I couldn't grow a rose called 'Ena'... it would remind me too much of ''Ena Sharples''... [sorry, Andrew will know]…
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Reply #3 of 35 posted 18 NOV by Patricia Routley
Three own-root plants of ‘Crimson Glory’ in different locations in my garden, all from a healthy named plant in my shopping town. My three are all very low, certainly under a foot in height, probably not worth the garden space but when they bloom, I am glad I have them.
I also grow what I believe is ‘Ena Harkness’ on its own roots. This was bred from ‘Crimson Glory’ and on its own roots here, is equally low.

Marlorena, could you grow a rose called ‘Violet Carson’?
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Reply #4 of 35 posted 18 NOV by Marlorena
Patricia.... now we're talking... yes absolutely.. and I think if I remember she was a very well spoken lady too... great character though old 'Ena'... we all loved her really, back in the day.. there was one in every village...
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Reply #5 of 35 posted 18 NOV by Margaret Furness
And due to a character called Edna, I don't grow gladioli.
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Reply #6 of 35 posted 18 NOV by Marlorena
ha!.... me neither Margaret....
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Reply #7 of 35 posted 18 NOV by Patricia Routley
I do. I grow the beautiful Old Gladioli cardinalus (?) that I found in old Group Settlement gardens around our town. I’ll add a photo later,
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Reply #8 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
Oh no Margaret was a monster not welcome in my garden (I not talking about Margaret Furness).... I might have a stab at 'Ena Harkness' then as it is such a historically important rose though I don't care for it much. I'm slightly resigned to the fact I need to grow 'SuperStar'. My grandmother grew them quite well but that was on chalky soil right by the sea. Marlorena I'm very surprised you don't grow Gladiolus byzantinus, everyone round here calls them Cousin Jacks.
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Reply #9 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Margaret Furness
Cousin Jacks and Cousin Jennies used to mean recent immigrants from Cornwall, in 19th century South Australia.
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Reply #10 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
Yes that's right and Marlorna is from Cornwall. The Cornish call people from Devon Janners.
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Reply #11 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Marlorena
Yes I like Gladiolus byzantinus, the purple ones, but I ended up with the 'italicus' version, which is pink and did not like these too much, so they're gone... the wind here, which is ferocious, usually blew them all over in any case unfortunately..

Andrew,... you are quite right.. Cornish born and bred, but let me tell you, I've never heard of the word 'Janners', not ever, this is the first time for me.. in fact I don't remember anything relating to people from Devon in particular... I wonder if it's a newer term?... or perhaps I was brought up with such a degree of refinement that it simply passed me by?..[joke]…

..but please get the clotted cream right.... jam first !...
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Reply #12 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
Janner originated from the dockyards near Plymouth because the Cornish thought all Devon people were called Jan, the Devon form of John, like the song, "With Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whiddon, Harry Hawke,...". It became Janner for a Devon person. It is used slightly derogatory but not offensively. My friend forgot the lead for her rather scruffy jack russell dog so used a piece of string and someone commented, "You got a roight janner dag there".
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Reply #16 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Marlorena
lol.... ''and Old Uncle Tom Cobbly 'n all''... gosh that takes me back... I really didn't know that about Janner, that's interesting..

Talking of the 18th Century reminds me of smugglers in that area, of which some of my own family members were still involved into the 1960's [contraband watches from France].. we were all born and raised in old Cob thatched cottages on the banks of the Helford River... this is where we think Daphne du Maurier got it slightly wrong when she used 'Frenchman's Creek' for her novel because it's very much on the wrong side of the Helford.. it flows up from the south, and the object was to get your goods offloaded onto the London road heading north towards Jamaica Inn... so they would have used creeks flowing into the Helford from the north, such as Polwheveral, where I was born and all my family lived, and Porth Navas.. but these don't sound so romantic..
As anyone knows today who is driving around Frenchman's Creek, it's a long, winding road through twisting lanes, to get to the modern day London Road.. it's so much quicker if you're already on the north bank of the Helford... great scenery though, all around..
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Reply #17 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
People were singing it in the pub the other week. I was told recently when I only had a sun tan on my arms and around my neck that I had a janner tan.
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Reply #18 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Marlorena
I'll really have to remember this word next time I speak to my niece... she lives in Devon... I'm sure she'll be nothing short of amused...
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Reply #13 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Marlorena
Actually, reading Margaret's post, referring to Jennies, obviously this is a very old term, not modern... I'm wondering now if Janners was used more by middle to northern Cornish, those nearer the Devon border... as the old dialect from the town of St. Austell in Cornwall and heading towards Devon, had strong Devon influences.. people I knew who lived there used to talk that way, using word endings familiar in Devon, but different to those from where I come from [Falmouth]…

Examples are the words 'you' and 'we'.. pronounced 'youm' and 'we'm the further north you went in Cornwall, which is how they said it in parts of Devon so I understood...
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Reply #14 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
them'm, you still hear now. AND it's cream FRIST!
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Reply #15 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Marlorena
ah yes... 'they'm' or however it's said.. and No !!!!!!.. lol...
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Reply #19 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Margaret Furness
Here they're called Devonshire Teas, not Cream Teas. And I've never seen or heard of cream first.
We do good Cornish pasties, too.
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Reply #20 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
And 'Devoniensis' is a cream Tea too! I think you'll find it's only the Cornish that do this abomination to their scones. A Cornish pasty is crimped around the edge whilst a Devon pasty is crimped across the top. They should only contain swede, teddies (potatoes), skirt beef and lots of pepper.
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Reply #21 of 35 posted 19 NOV by Patricia Routley
Ah - it is good to see the conversation getting back to a ROSE! even though 'Devoniensis' has nothing to do with 'Crimson Glory'.
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Reply #28 of 35 posted 20 NOV by Marlorena
That's a great quip there with Devoniensis.. made me laugh... and I crimp at the top too.. I think it looks better..
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Reply #22 of 35 posted 20 NOV by Jay-Jay
The climbing version does well at my place and Marnix's. It even forms nice big hips. Mine is in partial shade (pH high). And Marnix's is growing in a wet peat soil (pH low).
Normally the Dutch climate is wet and cool.
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Reply #23 of 35 posted 20 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
That's interesting Jay-Jay. I need another climber (you know how one always does...) and I wanted one to repeat flower, my soil is acidic and damp too.
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Reply #24 of 35 posted 20 NOV by Jay-Jay
Tiffany Cl. and Sutter's Gold Cl. perform well too.
Marnix is very content about the performance of his climbing Tea-rose Lady Hillingdon Cl. But that-one is planted near his house... Oops, I see now, that You already have this rose.
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Reply #25 of 35 posted 20 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
No I don't grow it personally but look after it for other people up in the village. In both cases it is grown against south facing walls. I'm sure my garden would be too cold for it. 'Sutter's Gold' is interesting though.
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Reply #26 of 35 posted 20 NOV by Margaret Furness
Beales' list Marie Nabonnand. You could ask them how it would go in your climate, if you're looking for a good red climber.
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Reply #27 of 35 posted 20 NOV by Marlorena
Margaret, where did you see Beales listing this rose please? I don't see it, and have not done so as long as I can recall on the UK site... only under its old name of 'Mons. Tillier', and that went a long time ago..

I grow it here, it's doing very well, but I imported it from France.. I should add that I would love to have got it grafted...
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Reply #29 of 35 posted 21 NOV by Margaret Furness
On its hmf page, Buy From / List all nurseries.
If they no longer stock it, it strikes readily from cuttings, for sharing.
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Reply #30 of 35 posted 21 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
I just want a rose that repeats quite well, It will be growing along wires in between plants of 'William Lobb' growing with 'Aschermittwoch' and 'Bleu Magenta' growing with 'Debutante'. None of those really repeat and I wanted flowers later in the year. It doesn't have to be red. There is a gap because I removed 'Variegata di Bologna' to a position where it will infect fewer roses with blackspot. My growing conditions are cool and damp in summer, in the past I had to get rid of roses like 'Compassion' and 'Breath of Life' because they didn't do. It is one reason I am so pleased that Jay-Jay's 'Noortje' rose is so healthy.
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Reply #31 of 35 posted 21 NOV by Jay-Jay
In the future, You might try a same year's sibling of Noortje, if You would like to.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.69581&tab=1
But You would have to root cuttings Yourselves or bud-graft Yourselves.
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Reply #33 of 35 posted 21 NOV by Marlorena
Andrew,... this may not be your cup of tea but for a good repeating climber I grow 'Armada'... you can see some spectacular photos on HMF of it growing in France.. Mine is 6-8 foot but I have to prune it to keep in bounds.. I'd like half the rose shown by Maurice Reybaud for instance.. no disease issues here, and still in bloom today.. a great rose by Harkness.. and perhaps appropriate for a Devon garden when you consider good ol' Sir Francis...
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Reply #32 of 35 posted 21 NOV by Marlorena
Margaret.. thank you, I hadn't thought of looking there.. although that list is from 2007 and out of date now, they've got rid of so many roses unfortunately... I don't think they've had this one within the last 5 years or so.. I haven't noticed it.. it's a good call though to name this one and I know it grows so well in Australia..
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Reply #34 of 35 posted 21 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
Thanks Marlorna, my car's just failed its M.O.T. in a catastrophic manner, I don't think there'll be any more roses for the foreseeable :-(
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Reply #35 of 35 posted 21 NOV by Marlorena
Oh I'm so sorry, but I know what it's like... best wishes for a speedy recovery.. or a Lotto win...
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most recent 21 NOV SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 2 AUG by Michael Garhart
Most of Meilland codes ending with "sar" are climbing mutations. Only a few exceptions (Papa Meilland is one). So the likelihood of the unknown portion of the lineage of Polka is probably a climbing sport of a known rose. There have been known to be translation errors in Meilland codes over the decades, and Meilland has used Cl. Bettina (MEIpalsar) for other climbers, so its suspect to me at this point.

Edit: I did searching for no reason. The answer is right here in the US Patent:

"The female parent (i.e., the seed parent) was the product of the pollination of the Meipalsar variety (non-patented in the United States) and the Golden Showers variety (U.S. Plant Pat. No. 1,557). The male parent (i.e., the pollen parent) of the new variety was the Light Konigin Lucia variety (non-patented in the United States). The parentage of the new variety can be summarized as follows:

(Meipalsar×Golden Showers)×Licht Konigin Lucia."
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Reply #1 of 6 posted 19 NOV by Jay-Jay
The parentage is shown on the description page, but there is written Meipaisar instead of Meipalsar. Maybe a typo or forgotten to put glasses on?
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Reply #2 of 6 posted 19 NOV by Patricia Routley
Definitely forgot the glasses. Now fixed. Many thanks to you both.
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Reply #3 of 6 posted 20 NOV by Michael Garhart
Woohoo!

I just noticed a typo for Cl. Bettina. It says 'Mepalsar', instead of 'Meipalsar', so the lineage for Polka isnt connecting.
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Reply #4 of 6 posted 20 NOV by Jay-Jay
Extracted from: https://www.plantago.nl/plantindex/plant/BO/R/1/rosa-mepalsar/14973.html

Botanische naam: Rosa 'Meipalsar' (Climbing Bettina)
Geslacht: Rosa
Groep: Trosbloemige Klimmer Groep (Klimroos)
Synoniemen: Rosa Climbing Bettina , Rosa 'Grimpant Bettina' , Rosa 'Mepalsar'
Familie: Rosaceae (Rozenfamilie)

I wrote to Meilland too via their contact-form, which name is the right-one for Bettina Cl.
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Reply #5 of 6 posted 20 NOV by Alain Meilland
The orignal variety is BETTINA® Mepal (without the i of Mei)
The Climber mutation of BETTINA® Mepal was registered under the varietal name Meipalsar (with the i of Mei)
Don't ask me why, I wasn't born ;)
Best regards
Matthias Meilland
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Reply #6 of 6 posted 21 NOV by Patricia Routley
Thank you Matthias.
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most recent 20 NOV HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 20 NOV by Jay-Jay
That's wonderfulllllll Warren!
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 20 NOV by Warren Millington
Thank you Jay Jay

Cheers Warren
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