HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Deborah Petersen
most recent 12 MAR 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 12 MAR 17 by Deborah Petersen
This bloom (this time of the year, at least) not quite like 'Royal Sunset' either -- well!
most recent 16 AUG 16 SHOW ALL
Initial post 17 APR 16 by Michael Garhart
The photos are really pretty. Definitely descends from Pernets, but the foliage is too nice to be purely Pernet type. The foliage is really pretty in the photos.
Reply #1 of 11 posted 17 APR 16 by Deborah Petersen
The blooms are somewhat longer-lasting than your typical "here today, gone today" Pernetiana, too. Last three days each, at least.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 17 APR 16 by Patricia Routley
Vintage also had 'Mevrouw G. A. van Rossem' and 'Heinrich Wendland', so it is obviously not either of those.
Reply #3 of 11 posted 18 APR 16 by Michael Garhart
I have not seen it in person, so it is hard to judge, but some of the traits resemble wichurana traits, sometimes seen in Brownell's roses, and I see in my own hybrids. The foliage density, foliage shine, prickle type. But this is a standard bush type?
Reply #4 of 11 posted 18 APR 16 by Deborah Petersen
Yes -- it grows tall over the course of the summer, vigorously extending its canes, but, still, like a typical bush.
Reply #5 of 11 posted 18 APR 16 by Michael Garhart
I wish I could help further. The foliage is a lot like Orange Ruffels and Lafter, which have a similar plant type, too. I looked at all sorts of Brownell Roses, as well as roses from Golden Glow. I don't know what this rose actually is. In some photos, Orange Ruffels *almost* looks the same, but I think that is coincidental.
Reply #6 of 11 posted 18 APR 16 by Deborah Petersen
There is variability in the color of the bloom. So far, the posted photos of the blooms are mostly in the apricot, orange or straw phase, but it does become a clear yellow sometimes. I've just put up a little photo of it in a bud vase showing the yellow phase. It is a mystery -- the virus likely indicating it was once a commercial variety, but no obvious candidates.
Reply #7 of 11 posted 18 APR 16 by Michael Garhart
Wow, yeah. The color range is wide. The petal shape is uncommon for Pernet types too.
Reply #8 of 11 posted 5 AUG 16 by VictoriaRosa
Just FYI-- I have both Orange Ruffels and Lundy's Lane Yellow and they are very different roses.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 13 AUG 16 by Michael Garhart
Thanks for the update on this mystery! Do you have other Brownell roses or roses that look like this mystery rose?
Reply #10 of 11 posted 13 AUG 16 by Patricia Routley
The pedicel prickles, the veining on the petals, and the deep green leaves are all directing my thoughts to something like 'Mevrouw G. A. Van Rossem' or a relation of that rose. I am in the middle of adding references for Mevrouw and note that there are a couple of other similar roses mentioned that you might like to investigate.
Reply #11 of 11 posted 16 AUG 16 by VictoriaRosa
No, I don't Right now, my Lundy isn't doing so well--I don't think it likes our Oregon climate as well as California, plus, I'm afraid I've let some other plants encroach on it. Which is all to say I don't have a lot to look at right now. It has never grown very well for me; I'll have to decide whether to keep it. Orange Ruffels, on the other hand, I've had for many years now, and while it stays small it is quite healthy and a reliable bloomer.
most recent 23 APR 16 SHOW ALL
Initial post 17 APR 11 by jannorcal
Per discussion with Fred Boutin, this rose may be Queen Mab.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 10 APR 16 by Patricia Routley
Five years on, how are the discussions going?
Reply #2 of 4 posted 22 APR 16 by Deborah Petersen
I haven't seen 'Queen Mab' in person, but this rose never shows pink, at any time of the year or at any stage of its bloom, in my experience, and is consistently a true apricot (like 'Lady Hillingdon'), unlike what the photos of 'Queen Mab' show (except of course for the time it bloomed pure white, as in the photo I just put up - and below!).
Reply #3 of 4 posted 22 APR 16 by Patricia Routley
A most interesting photo Deborah. I can't help thinking of the 'Lady Roberts' which periodically changed from yellow to white. See "Blanche Roberts".
Reply #4 of 4 posted 23 APR 16 by Deborah Petersen
Well, Patricia, what an interesting observation! Perhaps some affinity with the 'Lady Roberts'/'Anna Olivier' line? The color on this rose can fade precipitously in certain weathers. Here are photos of a half-open bud this morning, after it rained all day yesterday. There are still traces of apricot color deeper inside, but the color is overall very pale.
most recent 22 APR 16 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 22 APR 16 by Deborah Petersen
I think there may be a question as to whether "Rusty's Angel's Camp Orange" and "Marlowe Soft Orange" are the same. "Rusty's Angel's Camp Orange" is thought to be 'Royal Sunset' (in Kim Rupert's estimation, per Anita Clevenger in her post on Gardenweb, referenced below), however when I took samples of my "Marlowe Soft Orange" to the Berkeley municipal rose garden and did comparisons of it to the two 'Royal Sunset' plants they grow there, it was clear to me that the two roses are not the same, albeit very similar (see Gardenweb topic here: and scroll down to comparison photos in posts 18 and 19). The most obvious difference is in the leaves, with those of "Marlowe Soft Orange" being quite matte, versus the shiny leaves of 'Royal Sunset'. So, If "Rusty's Angel's Camp Orange" actually is 'Royal Sunset', then it is not "Marlowe Soft Orange".

And, according to Anita Clevenger (post #12 in the same topic), her comparisons of "Rusty's Angel's Camp Orange" to the "Marlowe Soft Orange" on the Santa Clara University fence showed that they were not the same.

Therefore, I think that "Rusty's Angel's Camp Orange" should have its own HMF page, where photos of that rose can be published unambiguously, the differences between MSO and RACO discerned, and the possible ID of RACO as 'Royal Sunset' also examined. Note that there are no photos of "Rusty's Angel's Camp Orange" actually posted here -- it's all "Marlowe Soft Orange" (is the plant in the cemetery the only known plant of RACO?), so it's difficult to know what "Rusty's Angel's Camp Orange" actually looks like.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 22 APR 16 by Patricia Routley
OK. "Rusty's Angel's Camp Orange" (shiny foliage) now has its own page.
That just leaves "Dr. Kelley's Tea" sitting in the "Marlowe Soft Orange" (matte foliage) page.
Deborah, may I say that I really appreciate the clarity of your comments. Thanks.
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