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Deborah Petersen 
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Deborah, following a hunch here, could you serve us up a plate of petals from an average bloom of “San Leandro Dark Red HT” - (much as I have done with the Australian foundling “Ebenezer Cemetery Miniature China”). I would like to confirm the petal shape and number of petals for “San Leandro Dark Red HT”.
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Patricia, the rose isn't in bloom at this time, but should start a fall flush sometime soon. When it blooms again, I can certainly post a plate of petals for you.
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I've just posted some photos of blooms and dissections in "fall mode", Patricia. They are generally a little smaller, maybe a few less petals, and not as intensely black as the blooms in cooler spring weather, but typical for this time of year.
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Thanks Deborah. A couple of weeks ago I passed one of my tiny bushes of ‘Crimson Glory’ and it seemed to have “sage green” foliage. That and the intense fragrance seemed a possibility. So then I read the patent for ‘Crimson Glory’ and I wanted to see how big the white nub was in the “San Leandro Dark Red HT”. My bushes are not yet blooming but the Patent indicates a bigger white nub in ‘Crimson Glory’. I would guess that your foundling is not C.G. Yes, yes - I know you could have told me that. Anyway, I’ll keep my eye out for other possibilities.
Patricia
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Good to know, Patricia. I don't know 'Crimson Glory' "personally" and was interested to see that some of its blooms can at times resemble those on this rose, looking at photos on HMF. In any case, it was good to get some dissected flower photos up for future reference!
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I stumbled upon this rose during one of my many "obsessive late-night searches", and something about it seemed familiar. Then I thought of 'September Morn' -- except that rose is much paler. But I then remembered that 'September Morn' is a sport of something else, and looked that rose up.
So, to get to the point, has anyone compared this rose to 'Mme Pierre Euler'? There aren't many pics of that rose, so for other details, I suppose looking at pics of 'September Morn' could suffice for comparison.
:-)
~Christopher
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One argument against this being 'Mme Pierre Euler' would be the strong scent it's described as having (also mentioned for sport 'September Morn'). "Zalud" has close to none in warmer weather and only a faint bit of some in the coolest weather (it surprised me that what scent there is was more detectable in January than in April). But, maybe that's just my nose. I'm wondering if anyone else can comment on the scent. Otherwise, leaves, flowers, etc. -- maybe. Unfortunately, it looks like SJHRG no longer has either MPE or SM (from their current list) so I could go compare. I did donate two plants of "Zalud" to them last month.
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The Friends of Vintage Roses Collection are listing ‘Mme. Pierre Euler’. Could you ask one or two of those volunteers to do some sniffing?
I’ve added your height of 4 feet to the main page, as well as the two possible identifications.
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I dont think it is MPE. I have MPE in my garden (ex Guillot): MPE has an etreme strong scent, the color is more uniform and the thorns are more and smaller...
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Not exactly "short", in my experience, as given in the description. I am currently growing this rose as a sort of pillar which, I notice this morning, is roughly 8' tall (would be taller with more support). I imagine a free-standing bush could build with time to the same extent as 'Miss Lowe's Variety', for example, or 'Comtesse du Cayla', which are generally 8' x 12' here.
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There are so many of these older dark red HTs, but this one looks cool!
Instead of focusing on the flowers to ID it, I focused on what could have produced foliage like this. There are many damask red HT lines from yesteryear. Most of them have rather funky foliage, but this one seems to have unusual leaves for damask reds. So looking at what could have produced this seemed like a better idea. I currently considering the Charles Mallerin lines, which can get that rather ovoid foliage type. Still unsure!
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I thoroughly agree with looking beyond the bloom shots.
Funky foliage? I’ve seen roundish leaves in the oldies. My ?'Charles Mallerin' doesn’t seem to have leaves that are so serrated as in the photos. Probably the way to eliminate this one is to look at the bush as a whole. Does it make basals freely - CM doesn’t. Are they lopsided - as CM can be. But the photos certainly show the almost touchable velvet and a bloom is showing glimpses of the yellow stamens as I have seen in my ?‘Charles Mallerin’. More photos of the pedicel, showing any glands, and the armature on the canes might help.
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Oh, sorry. I didnt mean CM itself. I intended to mean the roses that came after it, as opposed to, for example, something bred beyond Etoile de Holland.
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I've posted a photo of a pedicel and a few other photos of details (such as they are, this being winter here), with photos of prickles arriving tomorrow, with luck. It is moderately armed, I would say -- not so heavily armed as to strike terror as one approaches, but a smattering of medium-size prickles. The bush produces basals, but hard to gauge relative productivity, given how young it is.
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It looks good for an older red.
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So far it's been a good bloomer (regular flushes, quick turnaround) and healthy bush.
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Excellent and clear photos Deborah.
Because of the green wood on my bush and the original bush - and the red wood on your bush;
and the regular flushes and quick turnaround - against my once in a blue moon when it pleases, I believe your rose is not the same as mine and therefore possibly not (my rose is a foundling), 'Charles Mallerin'.
I have added the various characteristics on the rose to the main page Notes.
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Reply
#7 of 8 posted
6 JAN 19 by
CybeRose
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I think it is noteworthy that the leaves are often gray-green, like the picture I added from October 8, 2006 - San Jose Heritage
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Thank you Karl. I have added gray-green foliage. The characteristic of red wood is so identifiable. That will be red new wood I think, that I want to ask others to go out and check all their old hybrid teas. For some reason, the “San Leandro Dark Red HT” seems so familiar and fascinates me. Does anyone know Mrs. Madeiros to ask her what decade she can pin it back to?
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