HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 6 MAR SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
A few people have told me that foetida has fragrant foliage. I see it listed as such under Persiana, but not here in this listing. Does anyone know? Supposedly the leaves smell fruity?
Reply #1 of 11 posted 14 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
I've not encountered any "Foetida" variant (Copper, Yellow, Bicolor, etc.) which did not possess the "Juicy Fruit Gum" scent to their peduncles, sepals and new growth tips. That scent can carry through a few generations when bred with the right mate.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 15 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
Thanks :)
Reply #3 of 11 posted 15 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
You're welcome! That includes Persian Yellow, the double yellow. It has a luscious fruity smell to those parts.
Reply #4 of 11 posted 6 NOV by Plazbo
Do you know of any examples that have carried the fragrance? Like does Soleil d'Or? I imagine if it did it'd be mentioned so probably isn't. I just haven't found anything with it that doesn't have feotida in its name .
Reply #5 of 11 posted 6 NOV by Rupert, Kim L.
Yes, Soliel d'Or does carry that type of plant scent. As you visit nurseries and public gardens, rub the sepals, buds, peduncles and new growth tips of the roses you encounter. You will find a surprising number which express various scents through those parts. Of course, the closer to the scented species they are, usually the stronger those scents are, but they sometimes come through some generations away from the sources. Many OGRs carry differing scents in those parts. One of the things which continues surprising me is how many people who have "years of experience" with roses, have never noticed these sources of scent. Not all roses carry them, but once you begin "molesting" the roses you encounter, I think it will surprise you just how many DO.
Reply #6 of 11 posted 7 NOV by Plazbo
Hurray! That possibly alters plans a bit (using a hybrid that has a repeating parent).

In your experience/opinion would crossing with a more glandular plant bring out these scents without molesting (similar to how the sweet briars scent can hang in the air)?

I'm still trying to work out what I'm doing with breeding, foliage fragrance is up there in the interests (along with crested....but Moore's work with that isn't available here in Australia as far as I can tell)
Reply #7 of 11 posted 7 NOV by Rupert, Kim L.
I would seem more likely to obtain glandular results with plant scents using glandular parents, rather than those which don't possess the glandular trait, but that isn't an absolute. Add that combining two parents could easily influence not only the type of glandular scent expressed, but also the strength as well as whether it is even expressed or not.

Working with Fedtschenkoana, I observed the plant scents were often passed down, but virtually always in altered scent types. Fedtschenkoana's scent reminds me of "Nobel Fir with hardwood smoke". First generation offspring expressed varying levels of pine, spruce, cedar and further generations altered these not only in strength but also changed what they smelled like. Complete lack of scent in many instances occurred by the third generation, though there were some which still possessed some plant scents. I haven't bred with Foetida, but I would imagine you should see something similar breeding with it.
Reply #10 of 11 posted 6 MAR by Plazbo
I agree, glandular parents would be the way to go it's just a matter of finding them, that info often isn't easily available and seeing the older roses in person generally requires interstate travel....the rose gardens of Sydney are lacking compared with southern states when it comes to older varieties.

The lack of scent by the third generation is the big issue, add in Foetida blackspot troubles, low fertility (if going all the way back to species), lack of juvenile remontancy and it's a bit of a mountain. Soleil d'Or possibly isn't the best option available either but it's the better of the knowns...unless anyone has any suggestions for Pernetiana's with the juicy fruit gum scent to their growing parts.

Possibly worth going to Lady Penzance, at least in theory the pollen should be feotida and whatever LP chromosomes paired up with those....may bring more glandular genes with it. But wouldn't be able to smell the juicy fruit bits over the apple to determine if I even like the juicy fruit bits and no chance of flowers in seedlings for a few years to check sepals,etc is a bit of a "that will take a lot of space"...

I expect to to a lot of line and back crossing any way I's just deciding that first step.
Reply #11 of 11 posted 6 MAR by Rupert, Kim L.
Don't allow that first step to paralyze you. Select several potential mates and pollinate them all. Select the most promising from the bunch and use those observations to help you focus where you believe you should be mining. Unfortunately, with goals such as yours, there are bound to be many dead ends. Spending too much time intellectually determining what the mates should be can cost you much time. Because of the fertility pitfalls you're likely to encounter, selecting your initial parents based upon their fertility and ease of germination will provide you with the evidence needed to narrow your efforts and gain you a great deal of time. Also, collect all the pollen possible and don't be afraid to use it over a long period of time. Under suitable conditions, it can remain viable for a significantly longer period than is generally accepted. Granted, my conditions are likely more conducive to that practice than many others, but it wasn't until I began harvesting every available bloom and holding the pollen a full season, using it on every potential seed parent bloom I was able to make headway with the Minutifolia, Hugonis and now, hopefully, Xanthina, Stellata mirifica, Puzzlement and Spithamea hybrids. Unless you are extremely lucky and can decide on the most beneficial seed parent on your first try, the "shot gun" approach is very likely to provide you with the fastest success. Good luck!
Reply #8 of 11 posted 7 NOV by Margaret Furness
Crested Jewel is in Araluen Botanic Garden in WA - I don't know where they got it from. Probably Melville's nursery before the change of ownership. You could contact Heritage Roses in Aus members to send you pollen.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 7 NOV by Rupert, Kim L.
Margaret, Roy Rumsey was Mr. Moore's Australian agent for a long time. Many of his roses made it to your shores through him. His "Rum 10" was the thornless multiflora he obtained from Mr. Rumsey. Odd, as we've not been able to import from Australia for many decades...
most recent 6 OCT SHOW ALL
Initial post 21 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Maybe this is a dumb question, but how do you hybridize with a rose like this? When they have so many petals, how do you pollinate it and how do you collect the pollen?
Reply #1 of 1 posted 6 OCT by Plazbo
how many do with all roses, remove all the petals just before it opens, snip off stamens (to collect pollen).
most recent 1 OCT HIDE POSTS
Initial post 30 SEP by Andrew from Dolton
This rose grew form a packet of Thompson and Morgan Rosa multiflora 'Garden Party' seed. Of the 15 or so plants I raised all the others were very pale pink or white singles and semi-doubles. This plant I gave to a friend has flowered a cherry red, if anything darker than the photograph shows. In all other respects it is identical to its siblings.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 1 OCT by JasonSims1984
I love that :). I want to hybridize everything with rugosa. Lol. They're the only roses that bloom properly and grow well aside from knockouts. Hehe. I'm tacky like that.
most recent 24 JUN SHOW ALL
Initial post 19 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Is this rose cold hardy?
Reply #1 of 4 posted 20 JAN 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
You will probably get more helpful information if you revise your question to indicate to what zone or temperatures you want to know if it will withstand. I've grown it in Zones 9b and 10a and it was perfectly cold hardy in those conditions, so to answer your question as stated, yes, it is completely cold hardy. How cold are you wishing to grow it under?
Reply #2 of 4 posted 20 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Supposedly I'm zone 7, but winters can be eratic. We occasiobally get a zone 5 type winter here and there.

I do know how to read the information on this page, but it's not always accurate.

I'd consider myself zone 6b.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 20 JAN 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Thank you, that should help get you more useful information.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 24 JUN by kes
Hi, Jason. It's cold hardy to at least z7a which is where I am.
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