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scvirginia
most recent 4 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 4 days ago by scvirginia
Does anyone know anything about this foundling? Who found it, who named it, in what part of the world was it discovered, and why is it a "False Bon Silène"?

Thanks,
Virginia
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Reply #1 of 2 posted 4 days ago by Patricia Routley
The San Jose 2005 catalogue lists it at site K-12-20 with the notation [= Mrs. B. R. Cant?]
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Reply #2 of 2 posted 4 days ago by scvirginia
It may not surprise you to learn that I came across this listing because I found a reference to 'Minnie Francis' that called her an "improved 'Bon Silène'". So I was looking to remind myself of what 'Bon Silène' looked like, and stumbled across this foundling.

So many (too many) pink Teas to choose from...

Thanks for the info,
Virginia
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most recent 13 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 10 SEP by scvirginia
Your bloom looks a lot like the rose I got from Antique Rose Emporium as 'Mrs. Bosanquet':
rose received as 'Mrs Bosanquet' from ARE
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Reply #1 of 12 posted 14 days ago by Margaret Furness
If Mistress Bosanquet is still in Aus, it has lost its name. And lent it to Homere on occasion.
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Reply #2 of 12 posted 14 days ago by scvirginia
I think this is not the original Mrs. Bosanquet, which is described as being cream, pale flesh or blush. It is a pretty rose, but rather pink to be Mistriss B.

I did contact ARE to see if the rose was sent in error, but they said this is what they sell as 'Mrs. Bosanquet'.

Virginia
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Reply #3 of 12 posted 14 days ago by HubertG
The photos of Mrs Bosanquet look rather creamy pink which Agnes Smith isn't.
What is interesting is that there are photos of the unopened buds under both roses here, and although one is more bristly, they are both very similarly shaped.
The early spring flowers on Agnes are only semi double and quite cupped at the moment.
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Reply #4 of 12 posted 14 days ago by scvirginia
Yes, the photos and old references do not "fit" the bright pink rose I received as Mrs. B. I believe she is another rose altogether, but I don't recognize her.

She does resemble your "Agnes", I think...

Virginia
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Reply #5 of 12 posted 14 days ago by HubertG
Virginia, 'Agnes Smith' has a very distinct fragrance for me. Impossible to describe but it has a warm 'airy' scent which is tea rose but also a little of some other group too. How does yours smell?
I had speculated that Agnes might be 'Maud Little' (Tea x Bourbon) solely because it reminded me of 'Comtesse de Labarthe' in shape and a bit in fragrance, so I find it interesting that your rose that looks like Agnes was sold as a Boubon-China, and that the bud shape is so similar between Mrs B and Agnes.
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Reply #6 of 12 posted 14 days ago by scvirginia
Did someone say buds?!

Now that I know how to add photos, I'll share the ones I have of my rose's buds:
'Mrs Bosanquet'? bud

and:
'Mrs Bosanquet'? pink bud

Cheers!
Virginia
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Reply #7 of 12 posted 14 days ago by Patricia Routley
For me, "Agnes Smith" is lightly double, always has gracefully drooping blooms, elongated buds and the sepals extend way up beyond the bud.
Perhaps Virginia, if there is a doubt about the 'Mrs. Bosanquet' in commerce, your very clear photos would be of value in that file.
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Reply #8 of 12 posted 13 days ago by HubertG
Virginia, the buds and even the leaves of your rose don't quite look the same as "Agnes Smith"
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Reply #9 of 12 posted 13 days ago by scvirginia
Well, looking at the rather cupped blooms in some of the photos, I have to agree that they aren't the same. Not sure what either of us have, aside from pretty pink roses...

Thanks for having a look, though.
Virginia
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Reply #10 of 12 posted 13 days ago by scvirginia
Patricia, yes, I am doubtful that Mrs. B. should be as pink as my rose is. And according to Jeri Jennings, the roses in commerce (in the US) as Mrs Bosanquet, and actually look the part... are from a cemetery in California, so their provenance is also dicey.
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4802370/a-medium-sized-rant#n=56

Virginia
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Reply #11 of 12 posted 13 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thanks Virginia. Stay safe.
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Reply #12 of 12 posted 13 days ago by scvirginia
Thanks, Patricia.
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most recent 14 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 10 SEP by Arturo Tarak
I have a young own root plant of Isabelle Nabonnand. I'm interested in the architecture of this plant. Instead on an upright bush it is low spreading and tends to fall downwards over a stone edge more like a ground cover. Does any have this behaviour unlike my other teas which are upright. Arturo
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Reply #1 of 6 posted 14 days ago by Margaret Furness
G Nabonnand and its sport Peace (1902) sprawl, and can layer themselves (root down). My Teas were mostly disbudded through their first summer (it was in a drought), and many have made mounds of green down to the ground.
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Reply #2 of 6 posted 14 days ago by Arturo Tarak
Perhaps this type of comment could be added to the general description of the plant. I would love to see that section expanded in general. I'm sure that there's much more occurring out in the gardens that has yet to be included. Thank you very much for your comment, because first it outrules my induced temptation of trying to grow my I.Nabonnand in a conventional way. I don't have access to any of its few descendants so I don't know if it is a trait that is transmitted any further. This ground covering habit is a very intersting trait for further breeding.
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Reply #3 of 6 posted 14 days ago by Patricia Routley
In my cool, damp conditions in the south west of Western Australia, all the teas grow up and are very bare legged. I would kill for mounds of green down to the ground, but it would never happen here.
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Reply #4 of 6 posted 14 days ago by Arturo Tarak
Patricia I love yor addition. It simply proves my suspicion: Variability in growth pattern within any given cultivar. I have to come to grips with this question :how to contribute to this worldwide data base on rose growth variability. HMF local member Rafael Maino has posted quite a few pictures of his bushes and they are upright. My plant is from a cutting from his garden. Is it just cultural practise or there are groundcover sporting forms as there are for climbing? Thank you
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Reply #5 of 6 posted 14 days ago by scvirginia
If the parent plant you got cuttings from lives nearby in a similar climate, could the different habits have to do with maturity?

Do you know if Rafael Maino's plants were always upright, or did they start to sprawl less as they got older?

Virginia
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Reply #6 of 6 posted 14 days ago by Arturo Tarak
Actually the parent plants pictured by Rafael here at HMF are quite older. They are upright and bushy, not sprawling. My plant, always kept its sprawling character just from the start as a first year cutting. We both live in the town, however where Rafael lives is much more humid ( some years his rainfall can reach double of mine) and has less severe winters. My summers can build higher accumulated temperatures. I'm in a more desert type of climate and environment.
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most recent 11 AUG HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 11 AUG by scvirginia
How does this rose compare to 'André Schwartz', which was usually crimson with occasional white stripes, but was also considered (at least by one American grower c. 1884) to be variable in color?

I only ask because the 'Beauté Inconstante' ID seems to lack full confidence somehow...

Virginia
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 11 AUG by HubertG
Maybe even 'Garden Robinson' (G. Nabonnand, 1901) could be considered. There is something about the habit and foliage of "Mrs. Heggie's Red Tea" that reminds me of 'General Gallieni' whose parent was 'Souvenir de Therese Levet' . The pollen parent of 'Garden Robinson' was also SdTL and the age of introduction is about right for the property on which "Mrs. Heggie's Red Tea" was found.
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