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scvirginia
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Does anyone know where this rose was found? I see that there is a Barfield, Alabama, but have no idea if Mr. Starnes found this rose there. OTOH, Barfield could be someone's surname?
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As I remember John stated that the person he got the rose from was named Barfield. Subsequently that's what he called it.
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Thanks!
As I'm sure you know, it can be helpful to know where foundlings were found (gives us an idea of what conditions they've persisted in, and also it may help to check old catalogs from nearby nurseries to see if there might be any clues about the original name). Too often that info gets lost...
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John was a character. We communicated off and on for years.
He did state how he came by the rose. Perhaps it was in one of the forums. I can't recall exactly where. As I recall he purchased it from a woman named Barfield.
Pam Greenewald of Angel Gardens might be of help since she's been in that area for many years. John communicated with a lot of rose growers and they might be of help but many of them have also passed.
See notes at Barfield Climber,
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Thanks- I did read the notes, and it does seem like this particular rose will thrive under varied conditions.
As for what roses were locally sold, it's hardly a fool-proof way to ID a rose, but sometimes it can suggest varieties that aren't obvious. Not everyone knows that a few Florida nurseries were big on Alister Clark's Australian Roses back in the 1930's, for example...
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#5 of 7 posted
26 SEP by
Lee H.
Since I can’t post the link, here is what John wrote about it in his blog “Rosegasms”
“Years ago, Patty Barfield of 'Personal Touch Roses' bought several Mystery Roses from a travelling plants sales man though they were not in bloom...he said they were a white climber that grew well in Florida. She called to tell me as she knows I love trying to ID Mystery Roses, so I drove to Dover and bought one. I initially called it (with her permission) "Barfield White Rambler" as the first two years it was a once bloomer. But when it became a repeater I renamed it.”
I wonder what he renamed it?
You can find it all with johnstarnesloveofroses dot blogspot dot com
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Thanks! I didn't realize his blog was still online. A traveling plant salesman doesn't really help much with the location query!
I'm guessing the name change was from 'Rambler' to 'Climber'?
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I didn't realize his blog was still available either. Good for you!
Barfield in my climate could be classed as a rambler though it does have modest fall repeat here. In some more moderate climates it probably repeats modestly through much of the year.
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This is obviously not a single flowered rose. Given the NC provenance and description, I think this may be a photo of "Petite Pink Scotch", a found rose that may or may not be related to the Scotch roses (Rosa spinosissima), but definitely has Rosa wichuriana ancestry.
The flowers look right for "PPS", but I couldn't see the plant clearly enough to be confindent of the ID. Have a look at the other photos at HelpMeFind of "Petite Pink Scotch", and perhaps you will recognize your plant?
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Initial post
31 JUL 20 by
jedmar
This listing includes a reference to the origins of Joyce Demits' "The Gift", dated 7 Nov 2007. The totle of the publication seems to have gone lost, however. Can someone identify the source?
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I have had a search and although the reference wording (of the fire) is familiar to me, I cannot find where it is from. I did find a little on ‘The Gift’ from James Delahanty’s A Survey of American Polyanthas 2 [created May 18, 2007] he kindly shared with me. Chez Vibert’s message 4160 on March 1, 2005 from Fred Boutin also mentions ‘The Gift’.
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Here is another reference to "The Gift" being the same as R. multiflora 'Nana'. 'Nana' seems to be more of an umbrella category than one single variety, given that it was often sold as 'fairy rose seeds'.
Does anyone have strong opinions about combining these two records?
From 'The Plantsman', April/May 1995, p. 24: "Twenty of the Best Hardy Roses for Nurserymen Selling Roses in New Hampshire" by Mike Lowe The following are ten of the best repeat-flowering roses. Keep in mind that most miniature and Rugosa roses are very hardy. Rosa multiflora Nana ("The Gift"). Dwarf repeat non-climbing form of Rosa multiflora. Large clusters of 30-40 blooms of signal-white half-inch flowers from June until frost. As the numbers of flowers decreases in the fall, they are augmented by thousands of red hips. Bush three feet high, six feet wide.
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I'm puzzled by the synonym on the description page for 'Gloire de France' (bourbon, Hardy, 1822).
I don't see a reference to support this nomenclature. I do see an 1838 reference saying that Hardy received seeds of 'Rose Edouard' in 1822, but am having trouble locating any non-American references to a Bourbon called 'Gloire'(or Gloria) de France'. What am I missing?
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#1 of 4 posted
25 AUG by
jedmar
Buist and several others were stating that 'Gloire de France' is a synonym of 'Mme Neumann' resp. 'Dubreuil'
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Buist was ahead of his time with his efforts to 'streamline' nomenclature by declaring many similar roses as synonyms.
To be fair, though, the roses sent to him in the U.S. may have been more likely to be mislabeled than roses sent out within Europe and the UK.
But back to my question, we aren't saying that 'Rose Edouard'- by any name- was sent out by Hardy in 1822, are we?
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#3 of 4 posted
27 AUG by
jedmar
Hardy's own catalogue of 1837 equates his Bengale Centfeuilles of 1821 with Bengale Dubreuil (1822) and Bengale Neumann. The first rose would be the source of Buist's statement that Hardy introduced Rose Edouard in 1822. However, some of these seem to have been seeds of Rose Edouard, not the original plant.
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I guess I agree with Buist about this one, and am inclined to think 'Dubreuil', 'Neumann' and 'Centfeuilles' are probably the same. I don't know where 'Edward'/ 'Edouard'/ 'Île de France' fits in, but it seems to have been less double than 'Dubreuil'/ 'Neumann', etc.
Was there one clone or variety commonly found on Île de France (now Mauritius), and another, related rose found on Île de Bourbon (now Réunion)? Or were they found in one location or the other or both?
Either way, I think India is probably the source of both these proto-Bourbon roses, and it's suggestive that at least two governors of Pondichery went on to become governors of Île de Bourbon/ La Réunion, probably bringing along some plants and/or gardeners with them.
The name 'Edouard' was not one of the earliest names in the references, and I would love to know why the cultivators in Île de France called it 'Edward', as reported by Prevost. Do we have any idea of who Edward (or Edwards) was?
I think Rivers heard about 'Rose Edwards', and automatically assumed that the name had been anglicized, and should be 'Edouard', but there were examples of people from the British Isles finding religious or political refuge- and attaining high positions- in both the royal and Republican governments of France.
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