HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Give me caffeine
most recent 3 MAR HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 MAR by Patricia Routley
I am glad you are warm. Hunker down and write more for future journals.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 3 MAR by Andrew from Dolton
At school I was constantly told I was no good, stupid even, there was no encouragement, no inspiration. After I left I spent a lot of time and money on private tuition to get even a basic qualification in English. Since then I haven't wasted my time with social media or filled my brain space with watching soap operas or reading fiction. I study horticulture and hopefully fill my head with useful facts and figures, yes I have limitations but also a great desire for knowledge.
And now, people tell me how much they like my writing, on HMF and many people in my village too, even total strangers, say how much they have enjoyed reading something written by ... me!
Reply #2 of 4 posted 3 MAR by Patricia Routley
One day, you can dedicate your eventual books to HelpMeFind.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 3 MAR by Give me caffeine
Good on you.

Don't knock fiction though. Good fiction can be well worth reading, if you have the time.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 3 MAR by Andrew from Dolton
Oh yes, Give me caffeine, that's very true. I was referring to Jackie Collins, Dan Brown, Barbara Cartland, Fifty Shades of Grey that sort of nonsense. Trashy novels. Stuff that does not make you think, stuff that you learn nothing from.
most recent 21 FEB HIDE POSTS
Initial post 21 FEB by mamabotanica
A rose at my mamas house hadn't been pruned in forever. I got in there and found a tag that identifies it as this rose. Also saw that it had been planted in a decomposed wooden box wrapped with a plastic tub mat. I tore that away and tried to bury the roots as best I could. Now I fear perhaps I should have been more tender? How hardy is this one? We are in zone 10 and this rose was well established when the house was bought 8 years ago.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 21 FEB by Give me caffeine
How happy does it look? If the roots got damaged when you messed with them, or if being stuck inside the box means it got badly root-bound, it may need a bit of TLC for a while. The usual thing with any shrub is to prune it back a bit if you have to lose some of the rootball when transplanting, and to give it extra water for a while.

It's a bit late to worry about being more tender. I'd just apply common sense (along with food and water) and see how it goes.

Oh and in Zone 10 and with it probably being spring where you are, I'd think about some mulch for summer. Roses love lucerne mulch. I think you call it alfalfa over there.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 21 FEB by mamabotanica
Thanks much! Will focus on water (praying for rain here!) and deep mulch as we move into the summer. I hope it recovers as it is a lovely rose when it does it's one big show.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 21 FEB by Andrew from Dolton
It's a rose that likes cool moist roots.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 21 FEB by Give me caffeine
It should do a second show in autumn if it's happy (and if it's deadheaded so autumn energy doesn't go into making hips from the summer blooms). I've seen a Zephy flowering in autumn before.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 21 FEB by Jay-Jay
One big show? This rose is almost never without a flower and has several flushes during the season...
Or is the one big show due to the available amount of water at Your place?
Reply #6 of 8 posted 21 FEB by Andrew from Dolton
I've picked flowers in November and it was one of the first roses to flower too. It grows well in a cool damp climate.
Reply #7 of 8 posted 21 FEB by Margaret Furness
I grow its sport, Kathleen Harrop, on its own roots, in zone 9b. It strikes readily from cuttings, so I'd suggest as a backup, you start some cuttings going.
Well-established plants in my clay soil, with mulch, get little or no supplementary watering; I wouldn't get away with that on sandy soil. We do get occasional summer rain. KH flowers most of the time.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 21 FEB by Give me caffeine
I remember reading that one person (in Vermont I think*) had quite different results growing ZD and KH. He found KH was much more resistant to disease.

Which might sound odd, but then sports are sports because of mutations, and it's quite possible that mutations will also affect things other than colour.

*Found it. South Carolina. See:
most recent 20 FEB HIDE POSTS
Initial post 17 FEB by Give me caffeine
Lovely shot.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 17 FEB by HubertG
Thank you. It isn't a digital photo just a scanned glossy print, so the quality isn't fabulous if you zoom in closely, but it does give a lovely impression. I would definitely grow this rose if I had enough space for it.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 18 FEB by Give me caffeine
Its offspring, Susan Louise, is very nice if you are looking for something related but a bit more compact. It's one of my favourites.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 20 FEB by HubertG
Thanks, I'll look at that one!
most recent 19 FEB SHOW ALL
Initial post 23 MAR 16 by drossb1986
It's still early, but here in Houston Purple Tiger hasn't been too bad. The coloring is what it is, love it or hate it. It hasn't had a blackspot issue yet. It's bloomed at a decent clip, and I've left most of the blooms on the bush rather than cut them. My only negative is that I find the foliage on PT to be, frankly, ugly. Even healthy, it looks a little sickly to my eye. It's on the lighter shade of green as rose foliage goes, and has a slight maroon edging. It's just strange, and that may be a personal taste of mine, but I would certainly not categorize it as attractive. However, PT is grown because the color is so different, not because it makes the best all around plant.

August 2016 Update: Spoke too soon. Purple Tiger got some nasty blackspot, as others often report, and almost completely defoliated despite spraying. The first 2 spring flushes were quite beautiful, but it has been a turd through the summer. I wish someone could develop a more robust and disease resistant version of Purple Tiger. As someone else said about PT, it's a bit of a love-hate relationship.
Reply #1 of 11 posted 15 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
and you can't polish a turd...
Reply #2 of 11 posted 20 JAN 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Amen! When John Walden, formerly of J&P R&D Facility, visited my old Newhall garden many years ago, I asked him WHY they pushed THAT out on the gardening public. He chuckled and stated, "If you think it's bad now, you should have seen it before we cleaned it of virus." He also stated that there was an "improved" version of it in the pipeline. He was referring to Tigress (the grandiflora, not the Hulthemia), which sort of resembles it, if you squint. Tigress is a stronger grower, but was no healthier for me.
Reply #3 of 11 posted 20 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Kim, that is very interesting, that it was virused. From the information on HMF both its parents are reliable and healthy roses. Purple Tiger grows just like an old variety of a plant that has been propagated vegetativly for years and years and eventually becomes full of virus and is weak, difficult and temperamental to grow. There is drosb1986's comment "Even healthy, it looks a little sickly to my eye" and I am wondering if it was totally cleaned of virus or certain stocks have become reinfected?
Reply #4 of 11 posted 20 JAN 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
When Jackson and Perkins bought Armstrong Roses, it was simply to obtain their outstanding patents. The Armstrong stock was burned in the fields due to the extensive virus. Double Delight, among others, was still under patent and Armstrong was the patent holder. I grew Purple Tiger as a new introduction, virus indexed, budded on virus indexed Dr. Huey, and it demanded the best of everything. It would not grow in the open ground, but in a large pot, in the best potting soil and regular, fairly heavy feedings, it produced reluctant inches of growth and a number of beautifully colored flowers. Could it have been re infected over the years? Certainly. The cleanliness of the stock can only be guaranteed when the tests are conducted. Once it leaves the hands of the testers, it's anyone's guess how it's propagated. It really doesn't matter whether its parents are vigorous, healthy plants. Seedlings can inherit incompatible combinations of genes even from the best of parents. You can select the best of parents and frequently raise some very "unfortunate" offspring from them. Add selecting for the "pretty face", the flower, instead of the health and vigor of the plant and you find all sorts of "should have been culled" plants like Purple Tiger. Had it not been the first commercial, striped, mauve, full sized modern rose, it would never have seen the light of day. As for whether it was completely cleaned or not, some theorize false negatives are more common than those who have been involved in the process for decades state. From what I have been told by those who actually perform the treatments and tests, false positives are more likely to be obtained. If the rose tests clean, it should be clean with no chance of the virus re occurring unless someone does something stupid, such as bud it to unclean root stock. Unfortunately, that is something that happens far too frequently when the costs of the plants are pushed too low to pay for the care required, or when you have an introducer who simply doesn't care whether their stock is contaminated or not.
Reply #5 of 11 posted 23 JAN 17 by drossb1986
Your comment about Tigress is interesting. I've looked for it, but I haven't been able to find it. I thought that it may be a better plant, or at least one that's a bit larger and more vigorous. But, bless this little plants is the definition of struggle bus. I've actually avoided purchasing it's parent Intrigue because I've read it blackspots like crazy too. I like mauve/lavender/purple roses, but good lord they are fussy!
Reply #6 of 11 posted 23 JAN 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Tigress is a stronger, larger plant with larger flowers. I didn't find it tremendously healthier, but it did grow more and produce more flowers. Intrigue grows better than Purple Tiger, and I grew that in 1984 (and later) when it was introduced. When it's pretty, it's very pretty. The operative word is "WHEN". I guess I've been blessed. I, too, love mauve roses and for the most part, most weren't severe issues where I have been able to grow them. Out of curiosity, have you grown Buck's Blue Skies? (Bucblu) It was horrific here, in every conceivable way. Perhaps your conditions are closer to those under which it was selected? It definitely hated the mid California desert. Blue Skies may be worth your looking into. It isn't striped, though.
Reply #7 of 11 posted 24 JAN 17 by Daniel Alm
*Sigh* So it IS the plant and not my fault. I had a budded Purple Tiger years ago that grew perfectly well in SoCal, but I left it there after moving. I recently got one own root two or three years ago because it wasn't sold grafted at the time. The little scrublet has barely grown a centimeter since then but does bloom every now and then. This variety is barely more vigorous than Grey Pearl, but sorely lacking in intrigue. It's showing up on the shelves again budded as Weeks' standards, I'm tempted to try it as little potted lollipops, but I doubt the retarded growth from the tree grafting will help. Any idea if PT performs better on a particular rootstock? I wonder if Purple Splash is any better, but the petal count seems drastically lower.
Reply #8 of 11 posted 24 JAN 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Nope, not your fault at all, other than hoping an own root plant would suffice. But, that's how we learn, isn't it? Why not learn to bud? It is NOT difficult and it IS fun! You can very easily coax a few buds from your own root disaster without removing any of the growth and place them under the bark of the stock of your choice, resulting in some almost decent plants for your garden. Of course there are the patent issues, but for those no longer under patent, it isn't a problem. If Purple Tiger was ever patented, that should have expired some five years ago, so I would explore that option if the rose is something you just HAVE to grow. Soaring Spirits does have fewer petals and it's also a climber, not a smaller floribunda, so other than similar flower coloring, there it is no real substitution for PT. As for what stocks Purple Tiger may do better on, it's more a question of which stocks are better suited for your soil/water/climate. I have friends in several places in Texas and they all report decent results using Dr. Huey, with some good reports using Ralph Moore's Pink Clouds (the EASIEST one to bud to nearly year round) with some reports of very good results using good old stand-bys like Spray Cecile Brunner. Chip Budding is the easiest method to use for the home gardener and requires very little patience, skill or practice, but practice does improve the results tremendously and it IS fun. I have a blog post about it here. And you can find others on line, including some You Tube videos. Plus, if you'd like to send me your email, I can put you in touch with a friend down there who is into budding BIG TIME and does it very well. She's teased about being the "Rose Queen of Kerrville". Nice lady and a real fun person to know. Please let me know if you'd be interested. Thanks! Kim
Reply #9 of 11 posted 19 FEB by Give me caffeine
Just saw this, and read the blog post you linked to. Good stuff. I may have to try this.

Edit. Oh. Found the post about wrapping long cuttings. Now that I am going to have to try.
Reply #10 of 11 posted 19 FEB by Rupert, Kim L.
Good! I'm glad you enjoyed them. Depending upon where you are, now could be a good time to try the wraps. I removed my first batch earlier this week and they worked quite well. The first is Anne Belovich, a Wichurana based large flowered climber I bred. The second is a Banksiae lutescens seedling I raised and the final ones are a complex cross I bred which makes quite sturdy, smooth wood.
Reply #11 of 11 posted 19 FEB by Give me caffeine
It's late summer here, but it's the sub-tropics and autumn is one of the best planting seasons anyway. Cuttings would probably still do ok now.
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