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This looks totally gorgeous. It'll be interesting to see how people rate it over time, and if it becomes more widely available.
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Any idea of the other parent?
It'll be interesting to see how this one develops.
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The plant of "Almerta Orchard Pink" is in a block of roses at the Barossa Old Rose Repository at Angaston: one of the nearby roses is White Maman Cochet.
Photo attached was taken a day after the first (newly-opened), showing that it has become pink in response to sunlight.
We have a small project, of finding out which of our name-lost Teas are seed-fertile.
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#2 of 3 posted
23 DEC by
 HubertG
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My experience with 'White Maman Cochet' is that it does produce pollen but it really isn't accessible unless you pick the central rosette apart and remove the comparatively few pollen sacs with tweezers. And even then you don't necessarily get a lot of pollen. So not particular available to bees or other insects. It's not impossible that WMC could be the pollen parent but in my humble opinion it's more likely something else. The seedling is very pretty though and would certainly be worth growing on because of its photochromic nature alone.
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Good point re White Maman Cochet. All I know for sure is the seed parent, and that it will repeat-flower - old southern rose breeder's rule: If it flowers before Christmas...
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I've just found an old Tea sitting in a neglected garden near my place. It's rather appealing, and I intend to try propagating it, but I don't know what it is. I have a vague suspicion that it might be 'Comtesse de Labarthe', but am not sure. Anyone care to take a stab at it?
Characteristics which are not obvious from the photos:
1/ It is completely thornless. EDIT: No, turns out it isn't.
2/ Only lightly scented (Tea/floral).
3/ Pedicels have sparse and soft bristles.
4/ Hips are spherical.
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I can see a prickle in one photo! Lovely rose.
I think C de L too.
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Probably the only one on the bush. Certainly doesn't have many of them. I have a liking for non-carnivorous roses. :D
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I'm with you on that! Especially so-called groundcover roses.
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#4 of 25 posted
25 SEP 22 by
HubertG
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Even though the bloom does look like 'Comtesse de Labarthe' it's odd that your rose has only a light scent as the Comtesse's fragrance is usually strong, and the near thornlessness doesn't really match either, nor do your brownish stems. Perhaps it's another Tea very similar to 'Comtesse de Labarthe'. Does it look like it's a very old specimen?
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Yes, it does seem to be quite old, although there's no telling how old. It could be as old as the house itself (a farmhouse which has been there for yonks). When I get a chance I'll ask the owner about it.
I was looking at the description for CdL and it says the blooms are quite large. These are fairly small, although that could be down to the bush competing with grass and not being fed. Not sure if that would also affect the scent.
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All the roses that come to mind are usually quite prickly. Teas can do some odd things with their prickles though - it would be interesting to see whether strong new growth is usually unarmed.
Do you think there's anyone local who might have information about the garden and the people who might have tended it?
Thanks for the introduction. Can you keep the photos coming?
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The owner (who I suspect has been there all her life) is still alive, or was recently. I'll see if I can roust her out and interrogate her. :D I did spot her and a young relative in the garden one day, a while back, and asked about some other plants there. I didn't notice the Tea at the time (probably because it wasn't blooming).
Will grab some more pics, and try my actual camera for better quality (the phone camera is a bit dodgy).
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And maybe drop a few hints re cuttings in November...
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Ok, have tried interrogation. The owner says she has no idea which cultivar it is. Apparently it was planted by her grandmother, and has been there for over 100 years.
However, one stray branch was being a nuisance when her grandson was mowing the lawn, so when I asked about cuttings she got her grandson (who happened to be handy) to lop that branch off. She said I should get heaps of cuttings from it. :D
More pix attached. Turns out there are stray thorns, mostly on old wood. The shape of the thorns varies, as shown in one of the attached shots (slightly blurry, but gives the idea). Some large ones are quite squat and more or less symmetric. Other (smaller) ones are very hooked.
"...it would be interesting to see whether strong new growth is usually unarmed. - The answer to that is yes. :)
As the shots show, leaf margins are toothed. Also, the very young red leaves have more rounded tips than the older leaves. They get bigger and pointier while they are still red (can do more pix if you want).
Edit: Having just turned the lopped branch into cuttings, I have noticed there were small hooked thorns on some of the newer growth. Not many though. A lot of it was still thornless.
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#10 of 25 posted
28 SEP 22 by
HubertG
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The flower does look like 'Comtesse de Labarthe' but something about the foliage gives me doubts - too glossy, and an apple green colour. And then there are those dark stems. CdeL usually has a very dense growth habit and more thorns. Perhaps these are just changes linked to culture and conditions. It's a pity you haven't smelt CdeL because that for me would be a deciding factor - it has a strong, very distinctive fragrance. CdeL isn't large from my experience, small to medium usually.
Maybe check out the photos here of "Bird Children" (pink and white) which is a contender for 'Souvenir d'un Ami' and 'The Queen'.
Good luck with the cuttings! I hope you get a good strike rate.
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This one does not have a strong scent. Distinctive or not, strong is still strong, and this one isn't (or not so far anyway) so that probably rules out CdL. I'll keep an eye on the bush now that I'm aware of it, and take shots of anything that seems interesting or useful.
Had a look at "Bird Children". I'm inclined to think it's not that. The bright red thorns, and the red leaf edges, aren't present on this one (or at least, not as I can tell so far). Even the small hooked thorns on some newer growth seemed to be grey, or a bit brownish, and they aren't long like the ones on BC. Pedicels also seem to be less bristly than BC.
On the other hand, Billy's description of the scent could match, but then that could apply to umpteen roses.
Edit: Had a bit more of a look at "Bird Children". The beastie I found (in the same sense that Stanley found Livingstone) seems to have more distinct veins on the upper surface of the leaves, and a smoother texture on the lower surface.
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Turns out I got three healthy plants out of the cuttings (there was lots of material, but most was no good for cuttings). They are going quite nicely, despite the grasshoppers trying to stop them, but are obviously still small.
Which relates to something I have been thinking: that it would be good to have three examples of each hard-to-source rose I have, so that if something happens to one there are two left for more material. Belt and braces, so to speak.
I've had a few favourite-but-uncommon plants (not just roses) snuff it, and getting replacements can be very difficult.
ETA: Re a study name for this thing - I'll ask the current owner of the place for the name of her grandmother. Since grandma planted it, I figure give her the credit.
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Well done.
When the plants are big enough, I'd like a couple of cuttings please (or if you can get from the original plant). May for broccoli box, Nov-Feb for doggybag. Still hoping to find somewhere to plant a full set of the Mystery Teas & Noisettes, and it would be useful to have this one among them for comparison.
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Sure. Will sort something out. :)
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Ok, I found a hip on it and got a couple of shots. Also a reverse of a bloom, just in case that was useful.
Re a study name for this rose: the woman who planted it was Lorna Dixon (née Harrison). So, I'm suggesting we call it "Lorna Dixon" for now.
I had a quick look on Trove, and apparently she won the second heat of the local waltzing competition in 1947. Her cat (name not given) also won an award in 1945 for Best Mouser (with catch) and Cat With The Largest Tail.
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That's fame, three times over!
The hip is a fair match for Comtesse de Labarthe.
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Your photo of a ripe CdL hip shows a much spikier pedicel. Not conclusive, but just something I noticed.
However, I just thought to cross check the three baby plants with my two potted 'Mme. Joseph Schwartz' and the foliage is very similar. Also, at this stage the foliage on the three baby ones does not have the high gloss and the apple green colour of the parent bush's foliage. It's currently fairly matte and a darker green.
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Ok, there has been a bit more movement at the station. A few points that seem relevant...
1/ Scent is definitely not strong. You could call it 'mild', or perhaps even 'elusive'. I have to get my nose in there to get a good sniff of it.
2/ It smells to me like 'generic Tea'. In other words, a little bit of rose, floral, greenery, and tea of some sort. It's not a distinctive scent at all, although still rather pleasant.
3/ It has started showing elongated thorns like ''Bird Children Pink'' on some new growth. Some of the BC pictures of older thorns also match fairly well for older thorns on the parent bush (different shape, with a wide base and sort of ogee curvature in the sides). See Margaret's two shots from 8 JAN 22 (Photo Id: 382495 and 382496)
4/ However, it's not a nodder by nature at this stage. Pedicels seem quite strong (some shots of CdL show strong pedicels too).
5/ Pedicels look completely smooth (to me) but are very slightly rough to the touch. I did notice slightly larger bristles on some pedicels on the parent bush, but they were still small and sparse and soft.
6/ Billy's comments about the scent of BC match what my nose says fairly well, but this one is not nearly as noddy, and doesn't seem to get red edges on mature leaves. Also, pedicels seem to be smoother than BC, AFAICT.
Short version: Some strong similarities to CdL, but no strong scent. Some strong similarities to BCPink, but doesn't nod like BCPink (or at least not often).
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#19 of 25 posted
21 APR by
HubertG
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'Comtesse de Labarthe' has such a distinctive scent that I reckon I could identify it blindfolded. It's a pity you haven't grown it, Give me caffeine, to rule it in or out for your new rose.
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Regarding CdL scent - www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.1661.6&tab=32&qn=1&qc=0#t98083
Quote - 'The family all say she has a ''planty'' fragrance, which they don't particularly like.'
Doesn't say whether it is strong or not, but certainly doesn't sound like the 'intense fragrance' (or similar wording) that other references rave about. It sounds more like a 'nothing notable scent', which is what I have with this critter.
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#21 of 25 posted
21 APR by
HubertG
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'Comtesse de Labarthe' is certainly one of the strongest-smelling Teas for me and it's not just a generic Tea Rose scent. I wouldn't describe it as "planty", whatever that means.
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That sounds like a 'no' to CdL then.
I assume 'planty' just means it smells like fresh green vegetation, but nothing much else. Not unpleasant, but nothing to 'particularly like' either.
It could be ''Bird Children Pink''. The parent bush of this one is noddy sometimes (quite a lot actually) and after checking all the photos of BCP it seems that BCP is not terminally noddy all the time. The photos indicate that it can do outwards-facing or semi-upright blooms at times. Other characteristics match pretty well too.
I wonder if feeding affects pedicel strength. I vaguely recall reading the 'Lady Hillingdon' is a lot more noddy if not fed generously (can't recall exactly where I read that though). The parent bush of this one has not been fed for yonks (and has a lot of competition from grass) while these three cuttings of mine went into a decent mix that has been fed a bit since.
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Maybe you could post a bud (with leaves and prickle) to Billy Teabag at the HRIA conference in Melbourne, late October. She has a good nose. Better still, send it with someone who is going to the conference.
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My three little plants have been flowering again lately. Have been fed and treated nicely. Still no scent to speak of.
If you stick your nose right into a fresh bloom, there's a very slight aroma of something that is more or less discernible as emanating from some sort of plant. Honestly, that's about the most thrilling thing I can say about it. If you're looking for 'strong and distinctive scent' as an indicator of CdL, I can't find anything like it.
Re running it past Billy: In the past, when Billy and I have compared notes on a range of moderately-scented Teas (G. Nabonnand, Peace 1902, Safrano, General Gallieni, Marie Lambert, etc...) we always seem to be in agreement. It's possible that our noses would not agree on this rose, but given past agreement it doesn't seem likely that application of the legendary Billyometer would make any difference.
I don't think it's ''Bird Children Pink'' either. No red edges on mature leaves, and no red thorns (they start greenish, then just turn grey/brown) and doesn't seem noddy at all (blooms are upright, or outward-facing).
One thing I have noticed: so far the cuttings are not getting glossy, bright apple green leaves like the parent bush. They're still matte, and darker. This may be due to them being in premium potting mix, while the parent bush is planted in the local slightly acidic clay (and is competing with grass).
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Some aspects would do for "Agnes Smith", but most of your photos don't show the outer petals rolling outwards. My kneejerk (non-nasal) reaction is still C de L, but I'd be interested in others' opinions.
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Hi guys,
I've noticed that in the past week you seem to be getting pages and pages of this, coming in batches...
* Posted by unregistered site guest: Pending HMF administrative review. *
I assume these are all spambots. Have you considered disabling posting for guests? It's commonly abused by spammers, and many sites don't allow it for that reason. Offhand I don't recall much legitimate content coming from guests, and if anyone really does want to post legitimate content it's quick and simple to register.
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#1 of 2 posted
17 DEC by
Johno
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In this latest episode there are over 100 'spam' messages. I will second your motion to stop so called guests from posting comment. Allow visitors to view site but prevent any form of posting. People can register but still choose an anonymous member name if they wish to post comment or upload photographs. Is the site protected from a major hack?
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I assume HMF's security is pretty good, since it seems to have done well so far.
Bots spamming via guest posting is not a security risk. It just results in a lot of crap the admins have to clean up. :)
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