This rose in the photos look very much like the so-called 'Mrs RC Bell' I was sold by Mistydowns last year (see photos for Mrs RC Bell). Very double, short stem, crimson turning blue, tea scent not strong but durable.

So it might appear as if the rose found by Val and Graeme Johnston (see 1990 and 2002 refs) at Rookwood some time before [?] 1983 (when Trevor Nottle’s book 'Growing Old Fashioned Roses' was published). The Johnston’s gave it to Roy Rumsey (1990 ref) and later when Roy was unimpressed with it (Heather Rumsey did not include ‘Lady Edgeworth David’ in her 1990 book ‘Old Fashioned Roses for Australian Gardens’), they gave it as well to Peter Cox who sold it from his Thirlmere nursery in the late 1980s.

Peter Cox (2006 ref) says “I have been told by my informant that there is another plant of the Lady in Victoria” and I think he may be referring to John Nieuwesteeg’s clone. John (2003 ref) said “...I believe I have ‘Lady Edgeworth David’....”.

So, there may be two roses: A singly-borne rose which the Johnston’s found at Rookwood, NSW; and the cluster-flowered rose from John Niewesteeg, Victoria. Does anybody know where John got his rose from? (My plant came from Victoria and seems to be the cluster-flowered version.)

If there are any internet searchers out there who can really delve into old newspapers, it would be good to get an early reference to single or cluster flowering for ‘Lady Edgeworth-David’.

Wouldn't the Norfolk Island Philatelic Burea have a record of the photograph provenance (which should be a useful lead)?

I know this is an old comment, but I think this habit of Auntie Whatsis and Co. calling every dark red climber 'Black Boy" in the '30's is relevant to my family history.

My mum, who is 80 and in firm possession of her marbles, has sometimes reminisced about the magnificent "Black Boy" that grew at her parents' house when she was a kid. After looking into Clark roses a bit I got curious, so asked her some questions about it.

Turns out that this "Black Boy" they loved so much never snagged her when she frequently brushed past it to get into the shed (so probably thornless, or almost) and had flowers that, while she wouldn't call them perfect exhibition form by today's standards, were still very nicely shaped rather than informal. They were fully double, never semi-double, and didn't go blue with age. She also remembered that it was never a profuse bloomer, but always had some. She couldn't remember what the foliage was like, since it was around 70 years ago and a young girl naturally focused on the flowers more.

Anyway, the characteristics she described don't fit 'Black Boy' but are a perfect match for another Clark classic: 'Countess of Stradbroke'. This would also fit with the construction date for the house, which was built within a couple of years of CoS being released. It was a very nice house (I remember it well, since my grandparents still owned it when I was young) and it would be natural for a moderately well off and houseproud owner to want Clark's latest and greatest when establishing a garden.

My grandparents bought the place in the late '30's, by which time the climber was well established. I had a strong suspicion that when they moved in they either assumed the rose was 'Black Boy', or were told so by a friend or neighbour who had heard of the ubiquitous BB but wasn't up to speed with some of Clark's other roses.

I emailed Mum links to the HMF pages for both roses, and her comment was that based on the information and pictures supplied she would say it was CoS. So, it looks like HMF has managed to fix a case of mistaken identity that has stood for 70 years. :)