HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 7 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 7 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
Hello Maryellen,
Does your 'New Dawn' show any signs of a second flush this year?
Regards, Andrew.
Reply #1 of 6 posted 7 days ago by happymaryellen
No darnit....After reading so many people having the same problem I think I’m gonna take it out this winter I wanted to repeat with her on this fence. I guess it’s a live and learn right?
Reply #2 of 6 posted 7 days ago by Marlorena
No luck then Andrew... I'm feeling a whole lot better that it was nothing to do with me... thanks for asking around here...
Reply #3 of 6 posted 7 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
Thanks Maryellen. My plant only stopped repeating when I moved it and now it competes with a cut leafed elder. Maybe it needs more food and moisture to flower well although it has made some very long growths. Interesting to look at other pictures of 'New Dawn' grown in warmer countries. The flowers are quite a bit pinker than mine which looks white at a distance, the same colour as 'Madame Alfred Carrière'.
Marlorena, there was a light ground frost in my garden this morning.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 7 days ago by Marlorena
Andrew, I wondered if you might have had one because I know you're in a pocket there...... it dropped to 5C here last night... I've had the heating on...
Reply #5 of 6 posted 7 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
I knew we were in for a cold night yesterday evening because the moors, about 20KM away, were absolutely crystal clear and the sky rich blue.
Reply #6 of 6 posted 7 days ago by Lavenderlace
Yes, thanks Andrew for asking around! I can't believe that I have so many of them now with what appears to be no hope.

There is a lady in Ohio who says hers is quite old, like 80 years, and it reblooms. So based on hers, HMF ratings, and the Heirloom website, I was hopeful. But now I'm wondering, because of the age, what if she doesn't have ND after all? I believe that she's younger than eighty!
most recent 7 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 13 AUG by happymaryellen
I planted my new dawn in March 2016. It has grown like crazy! Last year in spring I got a full flush of blooms. This year I got a full flush blooms in spring. But it doesn’t seem to continue blooming. I am deadheading it, and doing so properly down to five leaves. I also have gotten a Normas amount of growth coming off of it, it’s extremely leggy. So the question I have is, is it too soon for me to expect to bloom all season long?
It is extremely healthy and happy and green, almost no disease, just a little bit of mildew lately. I live in Northern California I am in 100% full sun, and I’ve been fertilizing every three weeks with Max sea 16 1616 Any thoughts?
Reply #1 of 12 posted 14 AUG by Lavenderlace
I have only been getting a big spring flush also! I've had several people tell me that they might have reverted back to Dr. W. Van Fleet. But I have a total of 16 from two vendors so that seems like a lot to all revert back. I'm very curious to see if this fall will have any blooms from the second vendor's, which are younger.
Reply #2 of 12 posted 14 AUG by Andrew from Dolton
There is usually a good spring flush here then another scat of flower from August into September. This year was unusually hot and dry and so far there have been no second flush although it has put on plenty of new growth. Maybe extra watering could be the answer.
Reply #3 of 12 posted 14 AUG by Marlorena
Tell me about it.... my history with this perplexing rose here in England goes back 20 years... I bought 2 in the 1990's, the first grew 20 foot with no rebloom... I then bought a 2nd rose during September one year, from a garden centre, where it was in bloom, so I knew I had the repeat type, but in the garden it once again grew 20 foot and didn't repeat... 10 years ago I bought yet another for my current garden, from Peter Beales… no rebloom... I met the late Mr Beales a year or so before he died and told him about it, that all these ND's seem to revert to Dr Van Fleet when you plant them... he couldn't understand it and offered to replace my rose, but I gave up by then, and I'm now finished with New Dawn...

I can only hope you get some rebloom at some point.. I found it too frustrating...
Reply #4 of 12 posted 14 AUG by Andrew from Dolton
Isn't 'Dr. W. Van Fleet' larger flowering than 'New Dawn'? My plant is only 5 years old growing 4M up into a cut leaved elder tree. If they revert surely that would happen gradually, not the whole plant change at once?
Reply #6 of 12 posted 15 AUG by Marlorena
I wouldn't know about that Andrew, as far as I know, if it's a once bloomer it's Van Fleet but if it repeats it's New Dawn... If one buys it as New Dawn, and if it's to do with time or watering, then how many years do you have to wait before it gets into a rebloom cycle? that's what I would like to know... to be honest, I probably didn't go beyond 3 seasons with any of mine... I felt that was long enough, and I only deadheaded... let's see if Lavender Lace's roses rebloom this year...
Reply #7 of 12 posted 8 days ago by Lavenderlace
Everything rebloomed immediately after all the rain a month ago but not a single bud on the New Dawns. We can have blooms to early December though so will report back if anything changes.
Reply #10 of 12 posted 8 days ago by Marlorena
Thanks for keeping in touch about this.... I feel I'm shouting through a loud hailer, but if there's anyone in the world out there, who has a New Dawn that repeats... please sign in and tell us about it, because I'm dying to know ….

I'm going to check out a couple I know of in my local area, and see what they're doing...
Reply #11 of 12 posted 7 days ago by Margaret Furness
There are photos on the hmf file taken in September, October, November in the northern hemisphere; so their plants re-bloom. I donated mine elsewhere because it was so prickly, and I can't recall what it did. It's a survivor rose in our Mediterranean climate.
Reply #12 of 12 posted 7 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
Yes Margaret it's certainly tough, I moved a fair sized plant a few years ago and never cut it back at all, planted it to grow in an elder tree, it didn't turn a hair just kept on growing. I used to get flowers in September but haven't for the last few years.
Some of the northern hemisphere pictures have been posted in the winter months, some members might not have posted them at the actual time of flowering.
Reply #5 of 12 posted 15 AUG by Lavenderlace
My first ten grew to twenty feet extremely fast too, but has since slowed down. Andrew might have a good point about the extra watering as we are usually hot, humid, but quite dry. However, we just received seven inches of rain after our usual drought conditions. So hopefully that will be the push that it needs for a fall bloom!
Reply #8 of 12 posted 8 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
A plant growing in the village in a very dry position has put on hardly any growth and isn't re-flowering. My own 'New Dawn' put on a lot of new growth thanks to some irrigation during the hot dry summer, it shows no sign of re-flowering either. Others have had a good second flush, 'Rose de Rescht', 'Agnes', 'Jacques Cartier' and 'Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseux' have all done well although 'Duchess of Portland' hasn't even tried. Others, Rosa cinnamomea Plena and the Dunwich Rosa are unexpectedly having another go.
Reply #9 of 12 posted 8 days ago by Lavenderlace
Sounds like you have lots of blooms today also Andrew! I should have mentioned that I do irrigate, so it wasn't like mine were totally neglected to begin with. Though I do think that New Dawn can certainly tolerate neglect! Blooming seems to be another matter.
most recent 24 AUG SHOW ALL
Initial post 25 JUL by Margaret Furness
Lovely photo.
Reply #1 of 24 posted 25 JUL by Marlorena
Thank you, Margaret..
Reply #2 of 24 posted 25 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
Marlornea, how's 'Lady Hillingdon' coping with the drought and severe heat?
Reply #3 of 24 posted 25 JUL by Marlorena
Still blooming Andrew, quite a few here and there on the plant... lighter coloured in the heat... unwatered and throwing lots of stiff canes at the top which I've just pruned off... obviously enjoys these conditions... I had another 90+F today and more tomorrow... I've had next to no rain for 10 weeks straight... I might get rain Friday, but I don't like the lightning that will come with it... hope your roses are good this summer, it's been extraordinary... if I didn't garden I would enjoy it more..
Reply #4 of 24 posted 25 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
We have had a couple of light showers since the end of May but only enough to lay the dust not wet the soil. The first part of June saw some very good flowers but then we had 29C and most became rather small and wouldn't last beyond two days. The 'Lady Hillingdon' in a client's garden in the village looks stunning too but most other roses are struggling with their second flush. The hybrid musks are coping better and 'Agnes' has had a further 10 flowers with another 8 or so buds to come. All the fields are brown and tinder dry, farmers complain (as always), that crops shrivel and cattle have no fresh grass to eat. The stream in front of my cottage is reduced to a little trickle, all the fisherman on the rivers Torridge and Taw aren't catching any salmon. Devon looks more like southern Spain. I water like a fiend, only 'Madame Alfred Carrier' looks really fresh and happy flowering continually well and putting up masses of healthy growths. The Met. Office predicts that the highest ever recorded temp. of 38C might be beaten on Friday,grape growers are expecting a superb vintage.
Reply #5 of 24 posted 25 JUL by Marlorena
There is no water left in any of the streams around here, not even a trickle... I'm dreading Friday, I want the rain but not the heat... I'm hoping it will be a bit less where I am, but we're not far off from what London gets.. at times like these we need air con, but few have it in this country...
Reply #6 of 24 posted 26 JUL by Margaret Furness
"The farmer talks of crops.
His heart is in his boots.
The drought will spoil the tops.
The rain will spoil the roots."

For an Irish-Australian equivalent, look up "Said Hanrahan" (It's too long to post here.)
Reply #7 of 24 posted 26 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
'If the sun rise gray and clere in the morning, and likewise setteth without darknesse not loosing a minute in the declination: if the evening skye be reddy and not fierie, most purple than scarlet: if the Moone be cleere when it is four or five days old: if it lighten after Sunne-set without thunder: if the dewe fall in great abundance and in the rising ascend up to the mountaines: if the North Winde blow strong blow strong: if the Owl doe whup much and not scrytch; if the flyes at night play much in the Sun's beames: if Crowes flocke much together and cakell and talke: if Bats flye busily up and down after Sunne-set, if you see Cranes fly high and Water Fowle make their haunts farre off from water, all these are most certaine signes of very faire weather which will follow after.'
Gervase Markham.
Reply #8 of 24 posted 26 JUL by Marlorena quaint, but true... thanks Andrew and Margaret....
Reply #9 of 24 posted 26 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
The computer's spellcheck had great fun with that! Yes, thanks Margaret, I really enjoyed reading the "Said Hanrahan" poem"
Reply #10 of 24 posted 26 JUL by Marlorena
Imagine translating into another language... please, don't anyone try this at home..
Reply #11 of 24 posted 26 JUL by Margaret Furness
Thank you for the Markham piece, which I didn't know.
Reply #12 of 24 posted 27 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
Mmmmmmmmmmmm steady warm, sweet, delicious rain this morning. I've come in from the garden soaked to the skin. All plant life is basking in this moistness and giving a collective vegetative sigh of relief.
Reply #13 of 24 posted 27 JUL by Marlorena
Very little for me Andrew, a short thunderstorm last night, but today is the end of it I think, it's finally over... I remember 1976, it was dry for a long time, but never the temps we're having this summer, a string of mid 90's F is not something I've ever known before... every day in the 90's.. it's 93 at the moment... this consistency is extreme for us, common for warm climates but not England..

It's now 95 in the shade here, if this is global warming then I've had enough of it... it's usually a one off but not this summer... God knows what it is in London.. imagine..
Of course it's a lot worse elsewhere, I should point that out, and I shouldn't moan about it, look what happened in Greece the other day, and in California last year, all those fires broke out... this is nothing really unless one is in poor health, or the animals suffer, which they do because of human neglect...

I once spent a summer in Adelaide, Australia where temps were mid 40's C, whatever that is in F... enjoyed a stroll along Glenelg beach in it too... you know... mad dogs and Englishwomen...
Reply #14 of 24 posted 28 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
...Louder, and louder
Than mortal gunpowder,
The heav'nly artillery kept crashing and roaring,
The lightning kept flashing, the rain too kept pouring,
While they, helter-skelter,
In vain sought for shelter
From what I have heard term'd, 'a regular pelter;'...
Sir Walter Scott.

I too am ancient enough to remember 1976. That was particularly bad because 1975 was hot and dry then there was little rain that winter too. In this part of the country they were reduced to using stand pipes in the street for their water and we were allowed to leave school early because of the heat. In the 1990's I went to Romania and often stayed in a small village in the south. Here in August the temperature would reach 43C. Everyone started work at 6am, by lunchtime they were inside their homes where the walls were 1M thick and lovely and cool.

In the U.K. it is the same as when we get 1CM of snow and the country grinds to a halt. We are blessed that we seldom have extremes of weather it is why we can grow plants from a vast range of climates and have some of the best gardens in the world. We must be truly thankful for our climate and embrace these occasional ups and downs
Reply #15 of 24 posted 28 JUL by Marlorena
Oh I agree Andrew, we're not used to extremes are we?... and our gardens and landscapes reflect that... I wish the rose named after the above poet was as good as his writings... unfortunately I don't think it is...
I was just thinking, when you went to Romania that presumably was post-Ceaucescu… which was probably just as well...
Reply #16 of 24 posted 28 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
No, I don't think many of the Penzance briers are much good, there are far better and improved varieties to grow.
Yes, Ceaucescu was killed in 1989 and I was there, plant collecting initially, 13 times from 1992 to 2001.
We had a little more rain today then there is a lot forecast for tomorrow, I hope you got some too.
Reply #17 of 24 posted 29 JUL by Marlorena
Yes we got quite a bit of rain plus summer gales which have been lacking this year...
How interesting to be plant collecting in another country... the Sir Walter Scott rose I was referring to was the Austin though, not a Penzance briar...'s a small suckering spinosissima hybrid, that's starting to get on my nerves...
Reply #18 of 24 posted 29 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
Ah I see. I had Sir Walter Scott in my head because Lord Penzance named two roses one after himself and another after his wife then various other varieties after characters from Sir Walter Scott novels. I think there are far more attractive spinosissima hybrids than Austin's 'Sir Walter Scott' and irritatingly the name was already used three times before.
Reply #19 of 24 posted 24 AUG by Andrew from Dolton
Just an observation, not a criticism and certainly not a complaint. In North Devon since the beginning of August there has been precipitation in some form or other every single day.
Reply #20 of 24 posted 24 AUG by Marlorena
I have a fondness for the Atlantic coast off north Devon... wild, romantic, gale strewn and often wet... not the kind of England 'Lady Hillingdon' would like to think about too much, I imagine...

..even here...scant rebloom for me, bits and bobs here and there, and sometimes difficult to justify it's elevated place in my garden, if I'm honest..
Reply #21 of 24 posted 24 AUG by Andrew from Dolton
It was not just the lack of water but a lot of my roses did not benefit from a feed in July as they normally do, the rain came too late, I wrote about this in my journal. I look after a 'Lady Hillingdon, climbing' for someone in the village and it grows really well but that has protection of a south facing wall. I have picked 10KG of blackberries.
Reply #22 of 24 posted 24 AUG by Marlorena
I hope you've got room in your freezer for them Andrew... loads around here too, I really ought to go out and get some... I think autumn is arriving early... shrubs changing colour already...
Reply #23 of 24 posted 24 AUG by Andrew from Dolton
Half went to make bramble jelly, my favourite preserve, and half have been frozen to make blackberry and apple crumble for the lunch club in the village.
There is a lot of rain forecast for Sunday and if the weather stays cool and damp I can start moving plants around, the soil is warm and they will establish quickly. I've moved plants in July before when the weather has been particularly cold and wet.
My Rosa dumalis will have a stunning display of hips this year a lot of leaves have already fallen off the trees.
Reply #24 of 24 posted 24 AUG by Marlorena
I got some decent rain today too, at long last... I've also been digging up some roses to pot up for the winter.. I just bare root them and start again, if they were in the wrong place.. I don't worry about the time of year, they should be alright..
'Lady Hillingdon' currently has one flower open, a nice one though, and masses of plum red shoots flinging out everywhere.. I might give it one more season, I don't think it's a rose I want forever...

Your lunch club are lucky to have you as a member...
most recent 24 AUG SHOW ALL
Initial post 20 AUG by Lavenderlace
Incredibly vigorous here, always blooming. But can anybody comment on the scent? Is the first year scent pretty much how you expect it to stay, other than getting stronger as it matures? Or is the medicinal fragrance just part of the maturing process? I see that WOH has great reviews for fragrance so trying to decide if it's just not my cup of tea or if I'm being too impatient!
Reply #1 of 4 posted 23 AUG by Marlorena
I didn't notice any change when I had it, that's how it is... I didn't find it medicinal, but I don't think we do so much over here, you don't hear it said.... I liked the scent on this and others similar like 'Gentle Hermione'.. very honey like scent.. it was its lanky growth that I found difficult to control and I just wasn't in love with it..
Reply #2 of 4 posted 23 AUG by Lavenderlace
Thanks Marlorena for your thoughts! Mine are covered in blooms and exploding out of their pots so I feel guilty for not loving the fragrance.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 24 AUG by Marlorena
I hope you get to like it in time.. it's not for everyone and I wouldn't want a garden full of this type of scent that's for sure... it's certainly different... getting the plant to stand up is another matter... best of luck...
Reply #4 of 4 posted 24 AUG by Lavenderlace
Thank you!
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