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Plazbo
most recent 22 JUN SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 3 NOV 18 by Plazbo
On paper, from others experiences I should like this rose but I don't.

It requires a lot of direct sun to bloom and will instantly bleach to white (apart from the center) in those conditions. I don't smell anything from the plant. The plant gets spotting issues (not to the point of completely defoliating, but a lot of some sort of spotting all over the plant). It does bloom a lot, it is easy to get pollen from, it does set seed well....just almost everything bred from it has the same issues it does, it's often very easy to spot RnS offspring based on foliage alone.
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Reply #1 of 2 posted 22 JUN by StefanDC
I'm wondering if there is some serious confusion between Ralph Moore's 'Rise 'n' Shine' and the later 'Meicupag' that was introduced by Meilland, which has 'Rise 'n' Shine' in its lineage. Both are marked here with the trade designations GOLDEN SUNBLAZE, and oddly 'Rise 'n' Shine' has the Meilland trade designation GOLDEN MEILLANDINA, but 'Meicupag' does not. I suspect that there is a problem, and that 'Rise 'n' Shine' is mistakenly listed with those two trademarks that rightfully belong with 'Meicupag'. You might just have 'Meicupag' (mild fragrance) and not 'Rise 'n' Shine' (moderate fragrance).
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Reply #2 of 2 posted 22 JUN by Plazbo
There may have been a mix up but based on location (I'm in Australia) probably not between those two. Meicupag doesn't seem like it came here. I'd be more inclined to one of moores other yellow mini's and someone just connected the dots (a moore mini + yellow) to the wrong conclusion sometime in the ~30 years it was here. It has mini mini foliage (like closer to the rouletti type small foliage just on a bigger plant with more typical mini bloom size, not the tiny ones of rouletti) than the wich based mini's (eg magic carousel)
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most recent 27 MAY HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 25 MAY by thebig-bear
Does anyone know whether R. Spinosissima is self-sterile? And are the garden hybrid varieties also self-sterile?

I have seen this mentioned in an article I was just reading, and was left curious, especially as my pink garden variety rarely produces hips for me, despite flowering prolifically.

The article in question is "Durham Wild Roses" by J. W. Heslop Harrison, for those that are interested.

Many thanks in advance.
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Reply #1 of 2 posted 26 MAY by Plazbo
Likely varies to some degree with species from one individual to another, some being better hip parents than others.

I have an unknown white (someone bought an old place and no labels and I got a sucker...I don't recommend sticking a spino sucker in the ground, spreads) spinosissima, assume just straight species given all it's habits and traits.

It doesn't set a huge number of hips (maybe half of flowers) but it sets them. Of those that germinated, many of them seemed like straight spinosissima (no others in the garden at that time except the diploid pimps like hugonis on the other side of the garden), while others were obvious hybrids with things near it.


in the references there's one "Cross- and self-compatibility in various species of the genus Rosa"

which says
"R. spinosissima L. Ploidy, Ploidy 4x
Pollen fertility 97.7%
Selfed Fruit set 75.8%
Selfed Seed set 58.7%"

which isn't too far off what I'm seeing with mine (just less hip set)

Meanwhile at a public garden nearby there is plants of Single Cherry (and something labeled Single Purple) that produce a lot of hips. Seedlings from those show no obvious hybridity but who knows if they are self or just crosses between the two.
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Reply #2 of 2 posted 27 MAY by thebig-bear
Great answer. Very interesting stuff. Thank you.
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most recent 11 MAY HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 11 MAY by Aravis
Hi all. I’m new to HMF, so might be missing something….
This rose does not appear to have a very good rating….. but there are numerous photos from multiple people, in which the plants appear really healthy and covered in rather abundant blooms. I know different climates may account for some of this, but…. Could anyone help me make sense of it? Trying to work out some good options to buy. Cheers. (Sydney Australia)
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Reply #1 of 8 posted 11 MAY by Johno
Rarely look at ratings and in my opinion they do lack credibility with roses that are extinct getting favourite votes. Leonardo score of 115 is not bad compared with the better-known Iceberg 194 and Mr Lincoln 230. It received excellent or good scores in all areas except only a fair result for fragrance and shade tolerance. The signs are there that this is a good rose.

Leonardo has been in the garden for well over a decade. In its youth it presented more as a shrub rose sending out long shoots which had to be tied down to the boundary fence. Like all good puppies it calmed down as it aged. I don’t spray for black spot as it doesn’t become evident until winter. Rose does not ball, but I don’t live in the subtropical climate of Sydney. Alana’s excellent photo of 13/11/22 shows the rose at its best. When reading comments or looking at photos click on HMF members’ names to check their location as there are distinct differences between say the USA and Oz.

Leonardo is a reliable, robust pink rose
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Reply #5 of 8 posted 11 MAY by Aravis
Thanks Johno. Good to know from an Australian perspective even if not exactly the same… I am south west Sydney… bit further out. I think I’ll give it a shot.
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Reply #2 of 8 posted 11 MAY by Plazbo
One factor with photo's in general, most people will take photo's when things look good. Fewer will take them when things look bad. Kind of like how most pictures are of the flower close up, most people do that, fewer take pictures of the plant from a distance, the foliage, the canes, etc.

GOOD+ isn't a bad rating, it's effectively the third highest rating (Excellent and Excellent- being the only two above it).
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Reply #6 of 8 posted 11 MAY by Aravis
Thanks Plazbo… I figured people would take photos at the plants best, and also that Good+ sounds good…. But just comparing with other rose photos and ratings like for like… The photos on this seemed very consistently healthy, leaves looked healthy, great blooms compared to many other rose photo collections (possibly just in my own personal opinion… but I do acknowledge my fave rose in my garden with unhealthy leaves… has a similar bunch of healthy looking flower photos so… good point)

…. And with the ratings…. I guess I didn’t consider good + to be very good, because I haven’t really come across many at all with an average rating any lower than that…. So by default it kinda seemed close to the bottom but maybe sellers don’t tend to sell roses with lower ratings so I’m not looking them up so much, and searches are biased towards good ratings…..
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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Reply #3 of 8 posted 11 MAY by Lee H.
…and it depends so much on what actually gratifies you as a rose grower. In general, I think modern ratings are skewed toward low / no-spray maintenance, disease and drought resistance, cold hardiness, and continual blooming. And that is what many modern breeders are targeting. On the other hand, I and many others may value the unsurpassed beauty of a huge mid 20th century, high-centered, long stemmed hybrid tea, even if it means lavishing an inordinate amount of time spraying, fertilizing and watering. Or even spending 50 weeks of the year maintaining a plot of ground just to enjoy 2 weeks of joy from Madame Hardy. I say if it looks interesting to you, plant it. If it doesn’t work out, give it away (I still can’t bring myself to actually shovel pruning an otherwise good rose).
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Reply #7 of 8 posted 11 MAY by Aravis
Ah yes… Could well be skewed. I agree, it totally comes down to what people value…I do understand why people like yourself would be happy to work the ground for a year for two weeks of glory.. and if I lived in different circumstances would probably do the same … but I find in my suburban yard (with a large new two storey house on my eastern boundary, blocking much morning sun) that I am scrounging to find new sunny spots and have just built new gardens to have more plants…. So in terms of my space economy… it would want to be a very amazingly special rose to take up plant real estate for minimal bloom time…. Cause that is then space I can’t have other roses that provide me with much longer colour and more cut flowers I love to take to work. (Mental health nurse…. Patients and staff alike value them)

I confess I also spend a lot of time avoiding toxic chemicals in most areas of my life so tend to have a natural aversion to spraying in general even if I’ve sought out the less toxic options. Having said that though, my favourite rose (of 4 favourites from which I can’t decide so depends on which is blooming) is probably also the one with the least disease resistant leaves that needs the most spraying…. So I do totally understand your point. Thanks for replying Lee.
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Reply #4 of 8 posted 11 MAY by Nastarana
Most likely it is a good rose in climates which are similar to the South of France. Meilland has had success with some of its' landscape offerings being fairly cold hardy and disease resistant. I still think the Medilland series is best of the landscape roses, overall, with 'Pink' 'White' and 'Alba' being particular stand outs.

However, I suspect their breeding lines for HTs and floribundas are a bit more climate specific. Meilland was just one of the nurseries who sought to capitalize on the success of the early David Ausen roses, and the market for many petalled roses of old fashioned form became a bit saturated. Another rather nice rose--I have not grown it--from the Meilland breeding program of the 1990s was 'Renoir', I think was the name, a lovely saturated pink color.
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Reply #8 of 8 posted 11 MAY by Aravis
Thanks so much Nastarana. I was unaware of all these details. I have very little knowledge of France and still trying to get my head around the different categories, breeders, lines, origins and therefore appropriate climates for the different roses… so that was helpful insight. Cheers.
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most recent 28 APR HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 27 APR by Give me caffeine
I saw that the listing for this garden has been updated recently. Does anyone know if this information from the description page is still relevant:

''Varieties within the Collections which are not currently in commerce may be requested from specialist Australian nurseries: budwood is available for purchase.''

If it is still relevant, I really would like to have a go at 'Marquise de Vivens' sometime, and perhaps a few others.
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Reply #1 of 4 posted 27 APR by Margaret Furness
Maybe better to ask a specialist rose nursery if they still can get budwood from Ruston's. HRIA no longer has access to the Collections, and can't speak for the current owners.
For rarities, cuttings from HRIA members may be the best option.
Marquise de Vivens is mildew-prone, and responds to it by flowering madly.
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Reply #2 of 4 posted 27 APR by Give me caffeine
Ok, Ross Roses is probably the best one to ask (they have access to T4R too). I'll shoot them an email.

IMO any rare thornless rose with an unusual scent is worth spreading around for safekeeping. Particularly one this rare, and with the charming back story behind its preservation. Again, not something I'm in a huge rush for, but the more gardens it is in, the better.
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Reply #3 of 4 posted 28 APR by Plazbo
randomly, wild roses have Marquise de Vivens for sale on their site at the moment

www.wildrosenursery.com.au/product/marquise-de-vivens/693
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Reply #4 of 4 posted 28 APR by Give me caffeine
Cool. Thanks for the tip. :)
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