HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 13 NOV HIDE POSTS
Initial post 13 NOV by Plazbo
It's interesting, from photos at least, that this rose appears to have more cresting than it's parent and many of the other modern cresteds, sure it's not near the Crested Moss but it's still interesting hopefully the trait keeps finding a way forward.
most recent 10 NOV SHOW ALL
Initial post 2 APR 15 by Salix
Spotted and crested?! I would kill for this rose. Out of this cross, how many were spotted and how many crested, if you don't mind me asking?
Reply #1 of 5 posted 2 APR 15 by Spotto
Good question but it is statistically impossible to answer. I raised two seedlings after 25 years of annual crossings and only one survived to flower. However, crested sepals is a dominant trait (Ralph Moore raised 'Crested Jewel' using 'Centifolia Cristata'/'Crested Moss'/'Chapeau de Napoleon' as the pollen parent). The white spotting of 'Helga Brauer' was an unexpected finding.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 2 APR 15 by Salix
Persistence pays off, then! I am wondering I centiflora x some Gallicas produces spotting. Alain Blanchard is listed as a centiflora hybrid, after all.
Hopefully, one day, this rose will be able to get into the U.S.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 6 NOV by Plazbo
Oh, you bred Helga Brauer? Would you happen to know of that rose is fertile? Created Moss is clearly stubborn and difficult (as either seed or pollen parent) but is Helga Brauer more forgiving?
Reply #4 of 5 posted 10 NOV by Spotto
Yes, I bred 'Helga Brauer'. It ought to be a tetraploid but this has not been tested. It is both seed and pollen fertile and indeed at least two Australian breeders are using it in controlled crosses. The spotting and the crested sepals are of interest to them.
Reply #5 of 5 posted 10 NOV by Plazbo
Excellent. I will need to add it to my list of roses to get. Thank you.
most recent 7 NOV SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 FEB by JasonSims1984
A few people have told me that foetida has fragrant foliage. I see it listed as such under Persiana, but not here in this listing. Does anyone know? Supposedly the leaves smell fruity?
Reply #1 of 9 posted 14 FEB by Rupert, Kim L.
I've not encountered any "Foetida" variant (Copper, Yellow, Bicolor, etc.) which did not possess the "Juicy Fruit Gum" scent to their peduncles, sepals and new growth tips. That scent can carry through a few generations when bred with the right mate.
Reply #2 of 9 posted 15 FEB by JasonSims1984
Thanks :)
Reply #3 of 9 posted 15 FEB by Rupert, Kim L.
You're welcome! That includes Persian Yellow, the double yellow. It has a luscious fruity smell to those parts.
Reply #4 of 9 posted 6 NOV by Plazbo
Do you know of any examples that have carried the fragrance? Like does Soleil d'Or? I imagine if it did it'd be mentioned so probably isn't. I just haven't found anything with it that doesn't have feotida in its name .
Reply #5 of 9 posted 6 NOV by Rupert, Kim L.
Yes, Soliel d'Or does carry that type of plant scent. As you visit nurseries and public gardens, rub the sepals, buds, peduncles and new growth tips of the roses you encounter. You will find a surprising number which express various scents through those parts. Of course, the closer to the scented species they are, usually the stronger those scents are, but they sometimes come through some generations away from the sources. Many OGRs carry differing scents in those parts. One of the things which continues surprising me is how many people who have "years of experience" with roses, have never noticed these sources of scent. Not all roses carry them, but once you begin "molesting" the roses you encounter, I think it will surprise you just how many DO.
Reply #6 of 9 posted 7 NOV by Plazbo
Hurray! That possibly alters plans a bit (using a hybrid that has a repeating parent).

In your experience/opinion would crossing with a more glandular plant bring out these scents without molesting (similar to how the sweet briars scent can hang in the air)?

I'm still trying to work out what I'm doing with breeding, foliage fragrance is up there in the interests (along with crested....but Moore's work with that isn't available here in Australia as far as I can tell)
Reply #7 of 9 posted 7 NOV by Rupert, Kim L.
I would seem more likely to obtain glandular results with plant scents using glandular parents, rather than those which don't possess the glandular trait, but that isn't an absolute. Add that combining two parents could easily influence not only the type of glandular scent expressed, but also the strength as well as whether it is even expressed or not.

Working with Fedtschenkoana, I observed the plant scents were often passed down, but virtually always in altered scent types. Fedtschenkoana's scent reminds me of "Nobel Fir with hardwood smoke". First generation offspring expressed varying levels of pine, spruce, cedar and further generations altered these not only in strength but also changed what they smelled like. Complete lack of scent in many instances occurred by the third generation, though there were some which still possessed some plant scents. I haven't bred with Foetida, but I would imagine you should see something similar breeding with it.
Reply #8 of 9 posted 7 NOV by Margaret Furness
Crested Jewel is in Araluen Botanic Garden in WA - I don't know where they got it from. Probably Melville's nursery before the change of ownership. You could contact Heritage Roses in Aus members to send you pollen.
Reply #9 of 9 posted 7 NOV by Rupert, Kim L.
Margaret, Roy Rumsey was Mr. Moore's Australian agent for a long time. Many of his roses made it to your shores through him. His "Rum 10" was the thornless multiflora he obtained from Mr. Rumsey. Odd, as we've not been able to import from Australia for many decades...
most recent 6 NOV HIDE POSTS
Initial post 6 NOV by Plazbo
Does anyone know if this rose is fertile?

-edit- Neil confirmed it as both pollen and seed fertile.

I acquired it today (18/11/2017), late in the season but one bud still to bloom. The plant I got today is more crested than the pictures here show which is a plus. It does have 3 spent blooms that appear to be forming hips which should be interesting to see if anything germinates with the wide variety of other roses growing around it.
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