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Andrew from Dolton
most recent 11 DEC 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 13 AUG 18 by happymaryellen
I planted my new dawn in March 2016. It has grown like crazy! Last year in spring I got a full flush of blooms. This year I got a full flush blooms in spring. But it doesn’t seem to continue blooming. I am deadheading it, and doing so properly down to five leaves. I also have gotten a Normas amount of growth coming off of it, it’s extremely leggy. So the question I have is, is it too soon for me to expect to bloom all season long?
It is extremely healthy and happy and green, almost no disease, just a little bit of mildew lately. I live in Northern California I am in 100% full sun, and I’ve been fertilizing every three weeks with Max sea 16 1616 Any thoughts?
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Reply #1 of 25 posted 14 AUG 18 by Lavenderlace
I have only been getting a big spring flush also! I've had several people tell me that they might have reverted back to Dr. W. Van Fleet. But I have a total of 16 from two vendors so that seems like a lot to all revert back. I'm very curious to see if this fall will have any blooms from the second vendor's, which are younger.
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Reply #2 of 25 posted 14 AUG 18 by Andrew from Dolton
There is usually a good spring flush here then another scat of flower from August into September. This year was unusually hot and dry and so far there have been no second flush although it has put on plenty of new growth. Maybe extra watering could be the answer.
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Reply #3 of 25 posted 14 AUG 18 by Marlorena
Tell me about it.... my history with this perplexing rose here in England goes back 20 years... I bought 2 in the 1990's, the first grew 20 foot with no rebloom... I then bought a 2nd rose during September one year, from a garden centre, where it was in bloom, so I knew I had the repeat type, but in the garden it once again grew 20 foot and didn't repeat... 10 years ago I bought yet another for my current garden, from Peter Beales… no rebloom... I met the late Mr Beales a year or so before he died and told him about it, that all these ND's seem to revert to Dr Van Fleet when you plant them... he couldn't understand it and offered to replace my rose, but I gave up by then, and I'm now finished with New Dawn...

I can only hope you get some rebloom at some point.. I found it too frustrating...
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Reply #4 of 25 posted 14 AUG 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Isn't 'Dr. W. Van Fleet' larger flowering than 'New Dawn'? My plant is only 5 years old growing 4M up into a cut leaved elder tree. If they revert surely that would happen gradually, not the whole plant change at once?
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Reply #6 of 25 posted 15 AUG 18 by Marlorena
I wouldn't know about that Andrew, as far as I know, if it's a once bloomer it's Van Fleet but if it repeats it's New Dawn... If one buys it as New Dawn, and if it's to do with time or watering, then how many years do you have to wait before it gets into a rebloom cycle? that's what I would like to know... to be honest, I probably didn't go beyond 3 seasons with any of mine... I felt that was long enough, and I only deadheaded... let's see if Lavender Lace's roses rebloom this year...
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Reply #7 of 25 posted 12 SEP 18 by Lavenderlace
Everything rebloomed immediately after all the rain a month ago but not a single bud on the New Dawns. We can have blooms to early December though so will report back if anything changes.
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Reply #10 of 25 posted 12 SEP 18 by Marlorena
Thanks for keeping in touch about this.... I feel I'm shouting through a loud hailer, but if there's anyone in the world out there, who has a New Dawn that repeats... please sign in and tell us about it, because I'm dying to know ….

I'm going to check out a couple I know of in my local area, and see what they're doing...
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Reply #11 of 25 posted 13 SEP 18 by Margaret Furness
There are photos on the hmf file taken in September, October, November in the northern hemisphere; so their plants re-bloom. I donated mine elsewhere because it was so prickly, and I can't recall what it did. It's a survivor rose in our Mediterranean climate.
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Reply #12 of 25 posted 13 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Yes Margaret it's certainly tough, I moved a fair sized plant a few years ago and never cut it back at all, planted it to grow in an elder tree, it didn't turn a hair just kept on growing. I used to get flowers in September but haven't for the last few years.
Some of the northern hemisphere pictures have been posted in the winter months, some members might not have posted them at the actual time of flowering.
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Reply #13 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
Hi Marlorena, assuming this is still of interest to you, I got a top-grafted weeping standard plant of New Dawn from Beales in 2014. I garden in containers on a patio and quickly realised it was not suitable (in fact, it was a hazard!) in that space. So after it bloomed I planted it in the ground, on an island that belongs to the river-side building where I live. The soil is poor, hard and gravelly; I never fed it and it was really planted too close to an ash tree. The stake also did not hold, so it spent much of its life on the island leaning on one side. I hardly ever watered it, pruned it, or dead-headed it. Mostly I forgot about it, being half hidden by the ash. In those conditions it never has spectacular blooming in spring/early summer, but it's always had some flowers in the autumn. Nothing to write home about, but still. My conclusion is either that top grafted specimens of New Dawn rebloom more readily, or that poor soil restrains green, vigorous growth, and encourages rebloom. I have just potted this up again and am training it over the arbour of a bench, as the flooding this winter washed the soil away and left it with almost entirely exposed roots and lying completely flat. We'll see what rebloom I'll get in the conditions (being positioned close to a north-facing wall, probably not much).
PS: I have just checked some past HMF comments on this rose and I gather that not deadheading might have helped with the second flush; this is because in wichurana roses 'new buds grow very closely behind the spent flowers', so one should be 'Careful not to prune off the not yet fully developed buds immediately behind the just bloomed flowers' when deadheading. This was advice from the now passed away owner of Azalea House Flowering Shrub Farm (NY).
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Reply #14 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Marlorena
Hamanasu…. thanks for getting back about this.. always interesting to me... at least you know your rose reblooms somewhat.. and you've confirmed something to me that I noticed in 'Alexandre Girault'... I found that when I deadheaded it immediately after flowering and pruned it back, ready for next season, I did not get any rebloom whatsoever... one year I decided not to touch it after flowering, and it continued reblooming into autumn... not huge amounts but more than just sporadic.. the downside is that the plant looks a huge untidy mess...
So it seems you have confirmed, via the late owner of Azalea House, that it's best not to prune back the laterals too hard at midsummer... something that I was all too inclined to do...

This is good to know... thanks again Hamanasu… let us hope we have a good year for our roses... whatever happened to winter?...
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Reply #15 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
To keep the plant in check and reduce the tangle (given that trimming off the laterals is not a good idea, as it prevents rebloom), the suggestion was to remove in the winter one or some of the older canes, close to the crown of the plant. I guess correct pruning can make a huge difference to rebloom in some varieties. I noticed that when I got a rebloom on Quatre Saisons, it's because I had pruned it back quite hard after flowering, so that I forced the buds that did not break in the spring (behind the ones that did break, further down the cane) to create new, blooming laterals. The problem is that if I subjected the plant to that treatment every year, eventually there'd be no plant left (as I don't get new strong basal canes every year); so I only do it intermittently, and must resign myself to missing the rebloom at least every other year.

The winter was such a wash-out here (Berkshire), and I can count on one hand the nights when it went below 0!
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Reply #16 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by happymaryellen
I gave up and shovel pruned it
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Reply #18 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
Fair enough! I'm quite merciless with varieties that don't work for me (life is too short). :)
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Reply #17 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Andrew from Dolton
I don't prune my 'New Dawn' at all and just let it climb through a cut leaved elder tree and it has never re-flowered. A bush in my neighbours garden gets a rough haircut when I prune a 'Veilchenblau' for them in July and it always has flowers in September.
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Reply #19 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
Ha! Then I give up!
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Reply #20 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Marlorena
...from Andrew's experience, it sounds like it needs deadheading but without cutting too much off... this rose has vexed me too long, perhaps it's one of those that has had its day in the sun... I prefer Ghislaine de Feligonde now because I can do whatever I like with it and it still reblooms..

..interesting about Quatre Saisons… they need getting to know don't they?... I wish I could give up... it would save me a fortune...
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Reply #21 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Andrew from Dolton
It is interesting what Hamanasu is saying because I think a lot of so called "'New Dawn'" it is really 'Dr W. Van Fleet'.
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Reply #23 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
Marlorena, I sympathise about being unable to give up (in fact, only yesterday I ordered Blossomtime, one of New Dawn's children, except, to me, more beautiful)! All I'm giving up on is try to understand ND's reblooming habits, or lack thereof. Andrew, I'm sure you're right about Dr Van Fleet getting mixed up with New Dawn in nurseries.
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Reply #24 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Marlorena
..best of luck with Blossomtime... I don't know that one, but Awakening always looks nice in photos..
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Reply #22 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Andrew from Dolton
You get flushes of blooms from 'Ghislaine de Feligonde' right until you get a decent frost in cool wet conditions it does very well.
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Reply #25 of 25 posted 11 DEC 22 by jac123
I don't think that if you had waited longer something would have changed. My new dawn rebloomed the first year as an own root plant and still does now (third year in the grownd). I do not deadhead it; it doesn't get water if it doesn't rain, i don't fertilize it and it grows in partial shade. I don't get a full fall flush, rather scattered blooms here and there, but it's still something. Right now, with night temperatures below 0°C, it still has some buds on (definitely not a show, just its way to say "Hey, I can rebloom if I want!")

Overall, though, I believe that even though New Dawn does have the ability to perform where many other varieties would not even survive, and it should be treasured for these conditions, it fails to perform up to modern standards when it gets all the best conditions. It performs basically the same way in the best soil and with the best care or in total neglect. If, as I suspect, your plants receive good care and your conditions are not extremely tough, I don't see why you should try again with it
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Reply #5 of 25 posted 15 AUG 18 by Lavenderlace
My first ten grew to twenty feet extremely fast too, but has since slowed down. Andrew might have a good point about the extra watering as we are usually hot, humid, but quite dry. However, we just received seven inches of rain after our usual drought conditions. So hopefully that will be the push that it needs for a fall bloom!
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Reply #8 of 25 posted 12 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton
A plant growing in the village in a very dry position has put on hardly any growth and isn't re-flowering. My own 'New Dawn' put on a lot of new growth thanks to some irrigation during the hot dry summer, it shows no sign of re-flowering either. Others have had a good second flush, 'Rose de Rescht', 'Agnes', 'Jacques Cartier' and 'Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseux' have all done well although 'Duchess of Portland' hasn't even tried. Others, Rosa cinnamomea Plena and the Dunwich Rosa are unexpectedly having another go.
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Reply #9 of 25 posted 12 SEP 18 by Lavenderlace
Sounds like you have lots of blooms today also Andrew! I should have mentioned that I do irrigate, so it wasn't like mine were totally neglected to begin with. Though I do think that New Dawn can certainly tolerate neglect! Blooming seems to be another matter.
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most recent 4 MAR 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 1 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
I have been very impressed with this rose. It really handles cold temperatures like a champ, and does well in drought and in boggy conditions. It holds onto its leaves unlike a lot of prima donnas, and it keeps its flowers for a very long time as well. The flowers start out basically off white but take on a very faint lavender silver color as the flower ages and become a very attractive HT pointed shape. The flowers have to be removed because they will remain even as the hip is forming. Such a neat combination of qualities. Great fragrance. This and its cousin, Blue Skies are going to become the basis of a great new generation of lavenders. Neither one has a color that can be compared to, say, "Blue Girl", but they are stronger plants. It's almost like having a faintly lavender version of "Carefree Beauty".
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Reply #1 of 15 posted 1 FEB 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Exquisite as it is opening but rather disappointing when fully open as in the pictures from Beth's Northern CA Rose Garden and Robert Neil Rippetoe, rather like 'Margaret Merril' the stamens spoil the flower. Maybe could make some nice crosses with 'Aschermittwoch' or 'Grey Pearl'.
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Reply #2 of 15 posted 4 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
Grey pearl is not something I would mix back into modern roses anymore. I am certain that Distant Drums and the great many number of russet/lavender roses that exist now would achieve the same results in color but with seedlings much more healthy and worth the time. If you want to use grey pearl for a very specific reason, I think you should use Intermezzo or Lavender Pinnochio, which are both just a generation away from it.
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Reply #3 of 15 posted 6 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
I grew Silver Shadows years ago in the mid SoCal desert. It is DEFINITELY a better rose for a cooler climate than one which regularly experiences triple digit heat. The flowers and foliage are too soft for such extremes. As for modifying its coloring, please look more closely at newer, healthier mauves such as Blue for You, Poseidon or something like them than going backwards to museum pieces such as Lavender Pinocchio or mauves from the fifties, sixties, seventies, etc. Each decade, the bar is raised dramatically. You may pick up some coloring you desire from these older types, but you are going to lose much more in health, vigor, architecture, etc.
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Reply #4 of 15 posted 6 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
Thanks. You are right. Modern really is the way to go, but I love wild forms of plants.
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Reply #5 of 15 posted 6 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
I don't blame you and I also love "museum pieces", or I wouldn't also grow Lilac Charm, virus indexed Sterling Silver and Grey Pearl, but NOT for breeding "improved" roses.
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Reply #6 of 15 posted 6 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
Lol. You're going to smack me with a glove and challenge me to a duel for asking this,
But...
What about directly crossing fedt with a pepper scented china with eglanteria with primula?

Like (fedt x china) x ((primula x eglanteria) x china) ?

I mean, if the end result is a whole new class of shrub roses that are valued for foliage fragrance, that would make them pretty modern by definition.
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Reply #7 of 15 posted 6 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
Not at all. First, I would select the healthier, more vigorous types of the China for where you are and make the Fed X China cross both ways to see which (if either) works. They may not. For years, I put Fed. on everything that moved and vice versa. The ONLY thing that produced any seeds with it was Orangeade. Orangeade is a rabbit on fertility drugs! I theorized that if it crossed with Orangeade, it should them cross with Dottie Louise (Orangeade X Basye's Legacy) to bring in the other species genes. It did. You will find them here as the DLFED crosses. Whatever crosses you desire using, make the reciprocal crosses, too. Many won't work in one direction, but may going the other way. Don't be disappointed when the foliage scent is severely diluted, or even lost, pretty early on. That's usually what happens.
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Reply #8 of 15 posted 6 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
Hmm....where can I get dlfed or oedfed? Does anyone grow these?
That midnight blue x fed looked fantastic, as did the IHTXLB X FED. I have IHT. I also have Lilac Charm and Lila Banks. I love the general theme of crossing anemic or even excellent roses back to a species to attempt to reinvigorate it. I just got bracteata. I am going to make some really voracious stuff with it.
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Reply #9 of 15 posted 6 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
I only grow the repeat flowering Oadefed now. I left the DLFED crosses behind due to their "enthusiastic" suckering habits and the reduced room in the new yard. There are a few gardens growing some of them, but the one I feel is the most potentially useful is DLFED 3 as it's the mossy one with the largest, most double flowers. DLFED 4 repeats well and resembles Gloire des Rosomanes in several ways. I also have DLFED 5 X Tom Thumb which repeats in my climate. I'm raising some selfs of it in hopes of obtaining a more dwarf habit. One you may also find intriguing is the Golden Angel X R. Soulieana from Mr. Moore.
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Reply #10 of 15 posted 3 MAR 22 by Michael Garhart
Both Buck mauves were junk here in Oregon, as well. Black spot, weak stems, and not all that large blooms at all. Neither stayed long with me. In fact, Neptune is superior in every way, except maybe hardiness and own-rooting(I didn't have a snap winter when I had the two).
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Reply #11 of 15 posted 3 MAR 22 by Kim Rupert
I have probably shared the story with you previously. If so, please forgive the repetition. I bought Blue Skies (BUCblu) the year before its official introduction. MUCH hype was made about Buck's "Blue Rose", touting it as "Ageratum Blue". I HAD to grow it. I loved the breeding and anything "blue" was on my radar. A group of Texas rose producers offered it budded for $25, PLUS shipping. Remember, that was nearly forty years ago and $25 for a bare root rose was HUGE. I received it and it was the single WORST plant I have ever endured. It had severe RMV, seldom producing a leaf without symptoms. It contracted rust, black spot AND mildew all together. The flowers had no shape and were frequently deformed and never lasted very long. Talk about disappointment. I gave it two years then dug it, chopped it in many pieces and sent it off to the landfill. It's still the most expensive bare root I have bought and that includes paying the equivalent of $15 - $18 each for the Harkness Hulthemias imported from Harkness when you could buy the J&P "Rose of the Year" Grade 1 for $5. Never again.
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Reply #12 of 15 posted 4 MAR 22 by styrax
The mauve roses have really improved in the past 3 decades! Don't know if we are any closer to blue, but I was very impressed by Arctic Ice on the East Coast: while it takes colder weather to get the lavender colors, it is a sturdy bush.
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Reply #13 of 15 posted 4 MAR 22 by Kim Rupert
All color types have improved over the decades! As far as perfect health out here, NOTHING surpasses Blue for You. (Well, Eyes for You is AS rudely healthy out here.)
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Reply #15 of 15 posted 4 MAR 22 by Michael Garhart
Yeah, I remember. Its hard to complain when he gave us so many gifts, but, yeah, his mauves were stinkers lmao. So... bad.
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Reply #14 of 15 posted 4 MAR 22 by Mila & Jul
I grow it in my garden here in Stuttgart, Germany. i budded it myself with wood from a friend four years ago. It is always on the brink of death, but I like the color of the blooms...
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most recent 18 FEB 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 18 NOV 16 by Andrew from Dolton
Do the "blue" genes in roses all come from 'Tuscany' ? Is this where the dark purplish-blue colour in roses originates. Is that where these tiny traces of delphinidin could be coming from? You can see it in old hybrids like 'Russelliana'. If 'Erinnerung an Brod' was the grandparent of the so called "blue" roses like 'Mainzer Fastnacht' or 'Neptune', these types of rose all seem to have one thing in common, a very strong sweet fragrance. Any suggestions you may have on this subject would be very much appreciated.
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Reply #1 of 3 posted 16 FEB 22 by Michael Garhart
It's a really complex subject, enough to write an essay on, but the short answer is: Many various sources in many various lines.

But it is one of the many sources of "blue-red" of Week's purple roses.

Some of this cannot be answered, because some lines date through the French period of repeating OGRs, and that's a wild ride of unknown lineages.
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Reply #2 of 3 posted 16 FEB 22 by jedmar
I do not see the connection between 'Erinnerung an Brod' and 'Mainzer Fastnacht' or 'Neptune'. Do you have any information on this?
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Reply #3 of 3 posted 18 FEB 22 by Michael Garhart
Sorry, by it I mean Tuscany. I should have clarified that.

Tuscany ---> News ---> Big Purple --> Neptune (Important links listed only).

I intended to imply the "violet-blue genes" come from many ways, and display in many ways. They can even be retrieved from orange roses.
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most recent 9 FEB 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 15 APR 11 by k~T~h o'Silicon Valley
APL 2011 ~ White Licorice is on sale for $35.00 at SummerWinds Nursery(formally Woolworth Garden Centers) in Silicon Valley,CA stores.
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Reply #1 of 20 posted 13 MAR 16 by Blue Zinnia
Grossly overpriced. Edmunds has it for around $18 and Witherspoon for around $23, and even with shipping it works out cheaper. Edmunds' plants are good, but Witherspoon's are enough better to warrant the additional $5; in fact, they're the best I've ever seen, from a mail-order place or any other seller.
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Reply #2 of 20 posted 2 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
I saw many bare-root-body-bag & grafted-on Dr.Huey White Licorice on sale at Menards this spring for less than $5.
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Reply #3 of 20 posted 3 MAY 17 by Blue Zinnia
That's great, and I'll go look. We're having trouble here with rose rosette disease, though, and those bagged discount-store roses need very thorough looking-over. If even one in the store is showing symptoms, don't buy there, and wash your hands, clothes and shoes in hot water before going near your own roses again. Dry on "hot", too, to make sure any mites are dead. RRD is _devastating._ It'll kill your own roses, and can go on to those of your neighbors for a couple blocks around. It is not curable or even treatable. And then unless the soil is completely dug out and replaced, you and they will have to wait years to grow roses again.
.
Another of the bad vectors for the disease is the "Knockout" roses--yet another reason not to grow the damn things. :)
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Reply #4 of 20 posted 3 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
If I see another Knock-out I'm going to puke. It's everywhere in the neighborhood. Walmart's parking lot had a bunch of them .. so glad they died over the winter.
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Reply #5 of 20 posted 5 MAY 17 by Puns 'n' Roses
This is an earnest question, not meant as a provocation: What is it with Knock Out that makes people react so strongly and negatively ? I' ve read rose people a couple of times saying they hate it. I have never seen Knock Out knowingly - I've seen one rose of which I thought it might be Knock Out which was most impressive - so I'm not able to form my own opinion (yet). Many people seem to love it (obviously it's planted in lots of places), yet many don't. Why?
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Reply #6 of 20 posted 5 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
The older RED single-petal knock-out is extremely thorny, ugly bush. The newer RED double-petal knock-out is more slender & compact. The PINK double-Knock-out doesn't have much thorns, but not as vigorous as the RED version. My neighbor was really mad when her PINK knock-out sprouted bright cherry-RED, it was actually grafted on a RED knock-out. It was not Dr.Huey, but actually a RED-knock-out as rootstock. She offered to me for FREE, but I already killed a bunch of my RED knock-outs.
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Reply #7 of 20 posted 5 MAY 17 by Jay-Jay
Not all the rose-lovers detest prickles on a rose.
Knock Out roses have more to offer than being prickly.
As for continuous flowering, as for climate zonage and possibly as for breeding material for future Earth-kind roses.
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Reply #8 of 20 posted 6 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
I have been growing these landscape roses for 17 years: 6 Knock-outs and 3 Flower Carpet roses. Knock-outs (both pink and red) need a HUGE amount of water to bloom, but break out in cerespora with acidic rain. Flower Carpet is way better than Knock-out. Flower Carpet blooms 1 month ahead of Knock-out in spring. Flower Carpet is drought-tolerant & better zone 5a winter survival & can handle spring flood. I never see any diseases in Flower Carpet's glossy foliage & way more blooms than Knock-outs.

Flower Carpets need less water to bloom than Knock-outs. Both rose parks (Cantigny with 1,200 roses) and Chicago Botanical garden (5,000 roses) got rid of their red-single-Knock-out: ugly bush shape. These parks still grow double-pink Knock-out (better bush shape & more flowers). Home Run is even stingier than Knock-out in blooms. Cantigny rose park got rid of Home run, only 1/10 the amount of blooms compared to Flower Carpet. For pictures of Flower Carpet at Chicago Botanical Garden, see the below link, which I took last spring:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3179492/chicago-botanical-gardens-waterfalls-and-roses-and-perennials?n=93
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Reply #9 of 20 posted 6 MAY 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Maybe they grow better in Europe?
BTW Straw, loved Chicago Botanic gardens, great pictures.
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Reply #14 of 20 posted 9 MAY 17 by Fadi
I love my flower carpet yellow !
Absolutely beautiful!
No watering
No fertiliser
No disease
Flood tolerant ! Leafing out while practically setting
In water after spring snow melt and flood

Tolerant of heavy wet clay in Canada z5

Highly recommend
I also recommend the drift roses
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Reply #15 of 20 posted 9 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
You mean "flower carpet amber"? Saw that at Lowe's for $10 in late fall (1/2 price), and the leaves were so pretty & glossy & perfect. The blooms were peachy yellow. Too bad I didn't buy it.
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Reply #16 of 20 posted 9 MAY 17 by Fadi
I have the flower carpet yellow , red , scarlet, and pink supreme
I meant the flower carpet yellow , I planted 3 yellow together in a shady
area ( 3 hours of sun ) , the area is flooded in spring and wet during the summer
so no watering at all. The yellow grows tall and not bushy like the red or scarlet
I planted the pink supreme in fall last tea so it was dormant and I am looking to flower this year
I posted a picture of my flower carpet yellow on helpmefind

The leaves are very glossy and no disease at all in shade ; of course I would expect it to flower more in full sun
But I am really happy with the performance of yellow

I haven't seen the Amber but I would buy this if I still have a space
I have 2 drifts and I want to buy the apricot drift: very compact and hardy
Roses


http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.297065
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Reply #17 of 20 posted 10 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
I saw your link ... so pretty !!
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Reply #10 of 20 posted 6 MAY 17 by Nastarana
What it is about 'Knockout' is that it is, for many of us, a bland, boring rose with a dull color. In addition, the hype surrounding this rose was beyond annoying. What KO offers, an easy care, long blooming splash of color, has been in fact available for many years. Chinas and teas for the warmer zones, polyanthas and some of the floribundas for temperate gardens, and rugosas and some of the Canadian roses offer the same thing with much more attractive flowers.

Furthermore, what might be called landscape roses have also been available from at least around the mid-80s. The Flowercarpets from Noack (I think), the Meidillands and Drifts from Meilland and the low growing, bright roses from Ping Lim and Bear Creek all offer a better, IMHO, version of what you get from the KOs. I grow both 'White Meidilland' and 'Alba Meidilland'; both are perfectly cane hardy in zone 5, have far more beautiful flowers than, e.g.. 'White Out'. I consider 'Alba Meidilland', an ever blooming rambler, to be in fact a great rose, to be ranked with such classics as 'Peace' and 'Mr. Lincoln'.

Having said all that, what I am excited about from Mr. Radler is the larger bushes, like 'Milwaukee Calatrava' and climbers he is working on now.
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Reply #11 of 20 posted 7 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Very well written, Nastarana. THANK YOU. There's the myth of "blackspot-resistant-strain" which made Knock-out famous. Drift roses can do what Knock-out cannot do: stay healthy in flood zone. My neighbor's Drift roses get bigger as they get older, while her 30+ Knock-out shrank due to poor winter-survival.

Val who works for decades at a landscape company in warm Florida, zone 8b, gave THUMB-DOWN for Knock-out, for the same reason: cerespora fungal-disease from rain, plus not blooming well in hot & dry spell.

Chicago botanical garden has a large tree, which they planted dozens of light pink & double Flower Carpet in a circle next to the tree. There were more blooms than leaves on those roses, despite being planted ON TOP of tree's root & partial shade. Flower Carpet can easily get the "more blooms than leaves" look, but Knock-out cannot, unless it's week-long rain. See below link pictures of Drift roses, Flower Carpet, and Ping-Lim roses at Cantigny Rose Park, which I took near my alkaline clay, zone 5a. Rainbow Knock-out was the worst-looking among their 1,000+ landscape bushes:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3194694/cantigny-gardens-roses-mccormick-mansion-war-museum-and-perennials?n=62
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Reply #12 of 20 posted 8 MAY 17 by Blue Zinnia
Also, KO (1.) is ugly between flushes, (2.) has virtually no fragrance, (3.) sets no fruit, and (4.) has squeezed most or all other roses out of a lot of garden centers. Personally, I don't find the color dull, and I do like the look of an established KO in full bloom. But there are just too many good reasons to hate them...not least that the landlady's KO's rose rosette disease (for which KOs are an absolute magnet) took out my best-ever, really glorious plant of my alltime favorite hybrid tea, Kordes Perfecta, and made it impossible for us to grow roses here for years on.
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Reply #18 of 20 posted 21 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
The use of chemical fertilizer high in nitrogen do attract pests (including RRD mites). There are many studies that show high nitrogen attract pests. When the natural environment is altered with chemicals, that invite pathogenic pests. When a rose is weakened with acidity (either from acidic soil, or acidic rain, or acidic fertilziers), pests can take over. If you google "pH of rain across USA, you'll see a pH of 4.5 for my Chicagoland, and even lower for the east coast.

Re-post the info. I gave: "HMF is the best source for info., but I wish folks would specify their soil & climate & planting zone & what region of the country. People want to hold on to "old generalizations", rather than learning. Like nearby rose park, I was shocked to see them dumping sulfur in spring ... they burnt Tamora (prefers alkaline), also induced RRD (rose rosette disease) on Pink Traviata (Meilland rose) which also prefers alkaline. Gypsum is also acidic, I killed lots of earthworms using that stuff, and it burns my finger. Gypsum has calcium plus sulfur.

I made the same mistake years ago: dumping sulfur plus high nitrogen chemical fertilizer on a Grandma' Blessing rose, changing my soil pH to very acidic. It immediately came down with RRD five years ago. That's the ONLY rose with RRD in my 30+ years of growing roses, among 100+ varieties. I planted Radio Times in the exact spot, but I raised the pH with more alkaline clay, and no RRD ever since. I wish folks would stop generalizations, "Mr. Lincoln for fragrant reds", "roses prefer acidic", and "roses need full-sun". Own-root roses are completely different from each other.
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Reply #19 of 20 posted 28 DEC 17 by Blue Zinnia
Hmmm....our rain here is mildly acidic, but not enough to wreck the soil pH, which I checked. And nothing got dumped on my Kordes Perfecta but good old Black Cow; the landlady's KO didn't even get that. RRD is spread by a mite, and if significant numbers of the mites are around, the roses in the area are likely to get it, despite decent pH and no chemicals. Sucks, but there it is.
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Reply #20 of 20 posted 9 FEB 22 by AndromedaSea
I have alkaline clay, as well, on the east coast. Are you saying that it’s actually better for roses? I keep reading about how roses are healthiest in slightly acid soil. I amend with compost and I use mulch, but I’ve been wondering if I need to do more to bring down the pH. My cheapie pH meter says my soil is between 8 and 9 on the scale, which I’m sure isn’t right (it says the same about vinegar ???). I take that with a grain of salt, but my hydrangeas that are pH sensitive all bloom very pink. My roses do seem to be healthy and grow well, though.
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Reply #13 of 20 posted 8 MAY 17 by Blue Zinnia
Also, there's Bonica, which is beautiful, tough, floriferous over a very long season, reasonably fragrant, and genuinely healthy, and which sets good hips, Royal Bonica is also excellent.

And then there are the Griffith Buck roses, many of which are shrubby (see Carefree Beauty, among others) and nearly all of which are tough, lovely, floriferous, hardy, and healthy. Most are at least somewhat fragrant.
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