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MiGreenThumb 
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This is one of those roses I love the look and description of, but it's a victim of Jackson & Perkins absolutely terrible, cringe-worthy, uninspiring, overly commercialized, cutesy, and even downright embarrassing naming program. A child could do better. If the state of their business with how they name roses yields results like this, I feel like it's no wonder that the rest of the organization fell into bankruptcy if it had the same sort of approach and planning!
This is a rose that would probably not acquire due to the name. Maybe I could call it by the breeder code or just give it a much better nickname in my own garden.
I want to try it, and the notes of those whom have grown this rose encourage me.
I love its look, hate the name.
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I wonder if it might be time for some of us to agree among ourselves on some better names for worthy new roses. American writers, respected actors, maybe even American rivers and other geographical features might be among the names considered.
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I too hate the name. However, it's a really great rose that far surpasses the lackluster name. It's very vigorous, blooms its head off, and has unique coloring...kinda like Vavoom but with a milky tone. It is so good IMO it almost falls into that Knockout-Iceberg-Belinda's Dream category of easy-to-grow roses.
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There does not seem to be a patent. It could be propagated and sold under any name the seller cared to use.
Do we know who, exactly, at J & P is responsible for the horrible naming?
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#4 of 6 posted
24 MAY by
Lee H.
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Something that bad must have been by committee.
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The committee is hiding behind anonymity and is likely dominated by one overbearing person who wants things to be "cute" and "positive". Unless and until names are publicly named, the offensive monikers will likely keep coming. Protests by Asian Americans, a community of free spending avid gardeners, over 'Ch-Ching'--no way would I buy that, though it looks to be an excellent rose--had no effect on J&Ps naming practices. The worst part of this is that many folks don't realize that the breeders have no say in names, nor, according to Peter Schneider, even on which roses are selected for release.
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Breeders have very little control unless its something like Kordes -- a corporate xfamily affair. Then, I don't know. Even then, they are still at the whim of factors as random as a big box store buyer's lunch choice that fateful day in some random city, USA, that Kordes or whoever have never even been to.
The entire process of rose selection and production is honestly a bizarre affair. Wholesale horticulture in general is an odd duck.
Breeders can say no, I don't want my rose produced, and if they have power (which is ungodly rare), some say in some things. But a breeder would not say no because that's tossing potential money away, unless they saw that going forward would be a financial hit.
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I donated $50 in October to renew my Premium Membership, but it's still not being reflected on my account.
I've contacted before about this, and I was informed my account is "Premium Membership" again, as the Red Box Star is next to my name in comments, but Premium Membership features are NOT working for me, and my account page is still stating it's expired.
I've signed out and back in several times, and it's still not working. I'd like a resolution.
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We have manually updated your account while we review the cause of the delay and we have adjusted your expiration date accordingly. Thank you for helping support HMF ... and your patience.
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I feel the fragrance description needs changed. Chrysler Imperial does not smell of cloves/spice in the least. Rugosa roses often do. No references make such a wild claim either.
It's the damask fragrance blended with citrus undertones from foetida ancestors.
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#1 of 7 posted
6 DEC 22 by
jedmar
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The reference from 1964 states rose & clove fragrance, based on a study in the American Rose Annual 1963 (which we cannot access)
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I have that Annual, but it was the 1962 Annual that the reference appeared. Reference added.
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I agree with MiGreenThumb that the dominant fragrance of Chrysler Imperial is the marvellous classic 'fragrant deep red rose' scent that combines damask rose and citrus. Perhaps additional notes might be detectable to a discerning nose in certain conditions, but the overall fragrance is very much like that of its offspring, Papa Meilland, Oklahoma and Mr Lincoln.
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I appreciate the feedback, billy.
I have rugosa roses, and they DO have the scent of clove about them, and it's readily apparent.
It's a similar situation to David Austin catalogue description of scents, or akin to an enthusiastic gardener I've encountered that stated 'Fragrant Cloud' possessed the classic old rose decent, which is certainly not the case, methinks.
Just like blaming Rosa foetida for black spot in modern roses/yellow roses when we have things like Teas, Chinas, and Bourbons getting black spot without a trace of foetida blood, it's far too difficult to not cast doubt on "authorities", especially in the world of plants.
I have a particularly sensitive, if untrained olfactory capabilities.
Unfortunately, unlike my hearing tests for work, I can't give unarguable scientific proof for my sense of smell the way I can for my superior hearing capabilities to what the average individual is even in possession of.
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You're welcome.
It's a blessing, I think, this mysterious sense. It opens up a whole world of interest and wonder, calls up memory and it would be good to have aids to enhance the sense of smell or to help those who have lost or partially lost that sense.
These respiratory viruses have cruelly robbed a lot of people of some or all of their sense of smell and mine is not as acute as it was pre RSV and Covid 19.
The clove scent is said to be in Souvenir de la Malmaison and Souvenir de St Anne's.
"Souvenir de St Anne's smells of cloves" was written by someone and copied by many after them. I snuffled them for years and, for me, while there was a hint of clove it was not the dominant scent.
One day when I was sniffing a bloom of Souvenir de St Anne's I caught a definite strong note of clove - but it wasn't dominant, or the only note - there was apple too, and a smell like fresh, sweet pastry. All together it had all the makings of spiced apple pie!
Fragrance is an elusive thing at the best of times. I have noticed strong scents of this and that rose on one occasion (fresh nectarines and fig jam for example) strong and unmitigated - and never been able to find those notes again. And I'm sure different noses pick up different parts of a possible fragrance spectrum and there must be smell-blindness and olfactory astigmatisms and short smelled-ness and long smelled-ness as well as most of us having less than 20/20 function.
I hope people like you with a marvellous sense of smell help to fill in gaps in fragrance descriptions and encourage others to explore this aspect of rose appreciation.
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I've read that many people can't smell Boronia, poor souls, on a genetic basis: and that there is a genetic basis for smelling and tasting coriander as soap.
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#4 of 7 posted
7 DEC 22 by
jedmar
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Thank you all, possibly Neville Miller was thinking of rose fragrance = damask. Damask and citrus notes added to description.
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This would not appear to be 'Royal Gold'.
Both the flower shape and colour are incorrect.
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