HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
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Matthew 0rwat
most recent yesterday HIDE POSTS
Initial post yesterday by Matt's North Texas Rose Garden
What an unappealing name for such a lovely rose
Reply #1 of 7 posted yesterday by Margaret Furness
It was named for the girl the breeder later married. I'd say it wins hands down over some modern names which are downright tacky.
Reply #7 of 7 posted yesterday by jedmar
Léonie and Eugènie were daughters of Jean-Baptiste Lamesch, who had established a rose nursery in Dommeldingen, Luxembourg. So, it is another of those rose Family stories.
Reply #2 of 7 posted yesterday by Rupert, Kim L.
Lambert raised and named the rose in 1899. He named one Leonie Lamesch, and a second, Eugenie Lamesch. Two years later, he married Leonie.
Reply #3 of 7 posted yesterday by Margaret Furness
They went to St Petersburg for their honeymoon, and were invited by the Tsar to attend a court ball at The Hermitage, which was decorated with Lambert-bred roses. That's quite a compliment!
Reply #4 of 7 posted yesterday by Rupert, Kim L.
What a marvelous continuation of the story, Margaret! Thank you!
Reply #5 of 7 posted yesterday by Margaret Furness
Research by a Heritage Roses in Aus member, who wrote a series on major 19th century rose breeders for our Journal. And I've just found it among the References! I should learn to look there first.
Reply #6 of 7 posted yesterday by Rupert, Kim L.
(Sheepishly) I guess I should, too!
most recent 6 OCT SHOW ALL
Initial post 18 JAN 12 by goncmg
Have grown this rose in central valley California and now 6a, Columbus. Every year I fall a little more out of love with it. It is quite unique, the petals are uniquely ruffled, the foliage is olive green and also basically ruffled, it is a bicolor/multicolor with a heavy scent. 48 years ago this was a hallmark. I had to create a "sick zone" this year in my yard (all in huge terracotta pots, sleep in the garage) mostly because of Granada and the fact it and it alone got disfiguring mildew, AGAIN, which I could not clear regardless of what I tried. Another one that back in the 70's was re-classified for years as a GR due to the fact it generally blooms in clusters if not pannicles. I'm just losing enthusiasm for this one and feel it over-rated and resting on its reputation that was gained years ago and before better bi-multi colors with scent appeared. If you have heard of it and wanted to try it likely it is worth the gamble if no more than so you can just say you tried what is basically a "legend." If Secret or Double Delight (its child) strike your fancy, by all means, walk on by..........its rating has fallen notably in the past decade or so, and although still in the "very good" range, I expect it to keep falling...........
Reply #1 of 4 posted 29 APR 14 by Matt's North Texas Rose Garden
Agree about Double Delight, terrible... but Secret is quite nice and is AMAZING out at my Aunts place in the west Texas high plains.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 29 APR 14 by goncmg
Oh gosh, I think Secret is GREAT! I was suggesting Secret and even DD as an alternative to Granada which I find to be more and more problematic and when my ol' plant ages out, I will not replace it.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 6 OCT by BenT_TX
In my opinion, while Secret and Double Delight are excellent and worthwhile varieties, they are very dissimilar to Granada, and not a suitable replacement. Granada is still quite a unique jewel-toned color combination, at different times you will find red, pink, orange, apricot , copper and yellow...a wonderful kaleidoscope of a bush. It produces a prodigious number of especially elegant buds on long straight single stems, beautiful for both garden display and Cut flowers. It has a very nice old rose fragrance. I understand it has propensity to mildew, but if you live in an area where that’s not a problem, or keep up the spray program, this is still a most uniquely fabulous and indispensable rose.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 6 OCT by Nastarana
I love 'Granada' also, for the changing colors and for the fragrance, but I think it needs a warm and fairly dry climate. I think of it as a late 20thC Pernetiana, in behavior if not in lineage.
most recent 29 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 3 APR 14 by goncmg
Well, I DID save a "body bag" of this one. Just also gave 30+ away due to space, guess it 'sucks" to be YOU Smokey, Trade Wind, Ivory Tower, Mrs. Herbert Stevens, Azure Sea, Marilyn Monroe, Dark Night and least as my mental construct goes. (And any new growers PLEASE do as I say and not as I DO for I just gave a friend my Marilyn Monroe yet I guard with MY LIFE Marmalade, here in wet HOT sticky HOT Ohio in the summer, lol). NOW: seems like what is OUT there really IS this variety???? I actually, I admit, have wanted this one for a few years and also think that maybe the BUSH is out there from Mea and wax/bagged and being sold as the climber???? Or is somehow the CLIMBER really OUT there now?
Reply #1 of 5 posted 5 APR 14 by Matt's North Texas Rose Garden
I have two of the climber in pots, that I bought bareroot at walmart last year. They are definitely the climber and definitely correct.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 18 MAY 14 by goncmg
Thanks, Matt! Just now saw your response? How big do yours get? Not sure why, but anything I get as a climber never really climbs. Pinata just looked like a big, messy floribunda, same for Joseph's Coat. Golden Showers is a gorgeous pillar but not that much bigger than Fragrant Plum or Cherry Vanilla. Climbing Mrs. Sam McGredy throws out those long laterals but never longer than 6 feet? They all winter in an insulated garage so there's no winter kill here. Trying America and this one for the first time this year. Rescued a body bag Blaze as well. Not sure what I will do if any of these decide to really climb!
Reply #3 of 5 posted 20 MAY 14 by Matt's Northwest Florida Garden
Mine has only produced 3 blooms in the last year but is shooting out a few climbing basals that are over 6 feet. I really don't want them to climb too much, just go up a wall a bit. I expect more and more frequent bloom will come as the plants mature.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 11 APR by jmile
I have one that was planted in a pot but broke out and went to ground. It is huge and is covered with the most exquisite orchid purple flowers. Each flower is perfect form. We had a really wet year this year and my roses are going crazy with blooms.
Reply #5 of 5 posted 29 APR by jmile
I have a Orchid Masterpiece that I got many years age. It was in a pot ---but it has gone to ground and found its own place in my garden. It climbs very beautifully on a tree in my orchard. This year it was covered from top to bottom with the most perfect HT show quality blooms. The drought is over yea. By the way its canes are at least 10 + feet long----and there are quite a few of them.
most recent 26 MAY 16 SHOW ALL
Initial post 12 APR 09 by billy teabag
Many of the roses that are offered under the name 'Souvenir d'Elise Vardon' are in fact 'Mlle Franziska Kruger'.

This is a widespread error of long standing. It is likely that the rose being described by L.A. Wyatt in his article in the 1975 Rose Annual ["the broad outer petals in deep cream gently reflex at the edges while the inner petals are held in a high scroll of light salmon and fawn. Coupled with the deep purple foliage and brown wood...."] was in fact 'Mlle Franziska Kruger'.

The blooms of 'Mlle Franziska Kruger' can vary widely in colour and form, making comparisons difficult, but one characteristic seen regularly on 'Mlle F. Kruger' (and reported regularly in roses posing as 'Souv. d'Elise Vardon') is the green vegetative centre. Other stable characteristics are the mahogany stems and elongated leaflets with impressed veins.
Reply #1 of 5 posted 19 MAY 09 by Cass
This is exactly right, Billy. I received a nice plant sold as 'Souv. d'Elise Vardon' that shared the following botanical characters with 'Mlle Franziska Kruger,' which I've grown for 5 years: foliage with a tendency to both severe leaf spot and powdery mildew; blooms a combination of light salmon pink, buff yellow and cream; vegetative centers; and mahogany-colored canes. The two plants blooms in cycle. I too believe they are the same cultivar.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 15 SEP 10 by Matt's North Texas Rose Garden
I have grown both (although I have since lost Mlle. Franzeska Krueger) and they seem different to me. The bush type is different and MFK has more orange in the bloom than SEV.

I Can't be sure though.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 23 MAY 16 by John Hook
Hi Billy
Although most roses sold under this name may be MFK, the green vegetative centre is also a characteristic of this rose according to an old ref.

The Rose Book (Shirley Hibberd)
Book (1864) Page(s) 57.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 24 MAY 16 by billy teabag
Thanks John - Have you ever come across a rose said to be 'Souvenir d'Elise Vardon' that isn't 'Mlle F, Kruger' or one you believe to be the original rose?
Reply #5 of 5 posted 26 MAY 16 by John Hook
Not really, I've seen some variation to MFK but I reckon this is clonal variation, being grown for multi generations in different climates/soils. I have a rose that matches original descriptions. This was a misnamed tea from L'Hay that they were going to discard but early days. I have doubts about the MFK being correct too though, I would expect a much larger flower and good disease resistance. The rose in commerce isn't typical of the Nabonnands breeding. Of course, this could be a one off and the diseases inherited over time but this is enough to keep an open mind.
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