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billy teabag
most recent 14 SEP SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 8 SEP by Give me caffeine
Looks very Oldblushish, in all respects. Which I suppose makes sense for another old chinensis.
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Reply #1 of 21 posted 9 SEP by Margaret Furness
If you look back through the photos, I did a comparison pic, although the flowers weren't at a good comparable stage.
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Reply #2 of 21 posted 9 SEP by Give me caffeine
Found them. So very similar, but larger foliage and more red in the flowers.
The progression shot at http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.115433 looks very like Archduke Charles.

Seems to be a nice one anyway. I like Chinas. Chinas are idiot-proof.
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Reply #3 of 21 posted 12 SEP by billy teabag
Completely agree.
I often stand beside that Rose and wonder about its connection to Old Blush and Archduke Charles.
Lovely things, all of them.
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Reply #4 of 21 posted 12 SEP by Give me caffeine
I haven't tried TTL yet, but so far Old Blush is a more consistent performer for me than Archduke Charles. The latter is very good when it's good, but Old Blush seems to be good more often.
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Reply #5 of 21 posted 12 SEP by billy teabag
Once settled in and under way, ten thousand lights has been one of the consistent ones for me - something in the way of mutabilis to my mind.
Have you grow any of the red chinas gmc? They are more and more endearing. Special glowing colour and on some days they smell like raspberry lollies.
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Reply #6 of 21 posted 12 SEP by Give me caffeine
I have Gruesome Triplets, which some people call a China and others call something else (have even seen it called a Bourbon). It's gorgeous when it's on form, but has been a bit sparse for foliage.

I also have Comtesse du Cayla, which supposed to be sorta red in bits sometimes but hasn't yet done much for me. It was one of the slow starters, but is putting on some decent growth now.

Those are the only reddish ones I have.
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Reply #7 of 21 posted 12 SEP by Margaret Furness
Comtesse du Cayla is apricot in my soil. And well on its way to getting substantial in spread.
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Reply #8 of 21 posted 13 SEP by billy teabag
I especially love one of your finds Margaret - "Prospect Hill Red China" - do you think it is close to Cram Sup (sorry - in car on phone - cannot check spelling - you know what I mean) GMC - you need that one!
The smaller crimson Chinas like the one sold as Slaters are great too.
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Reply #9 of 21 posted 13 SEP by Give me caffeine
I need Cram Sup, or Margaret's foundling?

And didn't you try to talk me into 'Princesse de Sagan' too? That one sounds appealing.
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Reply #10 of 21 posted 13 SEP by billy teabag
Either GMC - Cram sup also goes under the name Lady Brisbane. All strike easily from cuttings.
Re Princesses de Sagan - the name is muddled in commerce. The large, variable, purplish reddish pinkish Tea most often sold as P de S was a Rose that came misnamed from Sangerhausen in the early 80s and then widely distributed. This rose is almost certainly 'Professeur Ganiviat'. It's a good Rose unless you live in a spot where blooms ball easily.
The real 'Princesses de Sagan' had fewer petals and a looser bloom - more in the style of Camnethan Cherry Red (which is also great!)
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Reply #11 of 21 posted 13 SEP by Give me caffeine
Speaking of red things, I need to find a spot for Restless. No point keeping the young 'un in a pot over summer.
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Reply #12 of 21 posted 13 SEP by Margaret Furness
I suggested the rose-sold-as P de S for your florist friend - David Ruston used the buds a lot in arrangements. Tall bush.
When I collected the "Prospect Hill Red China" it was climbing 2m up through something. I think I gave one to Helga B as probably Climbing Slater's Crimson. I don't have one in my garden. It hasn't really climbed at Renmark, but we've seen Chinas do a lot of climbing if they need to reach the light. See my photo of the "Carlsruhe Red China" under Gardens - Ruston's.
We do have a climbing China, maybe Cramoisi Superieur, at Renmark, which climbs unprovoked.
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Reply #13 of 21 posted 13 SEP by billy teabag
Yes - they are roses with initiative and take their opportunities.
"prospect hill" has made a rounded bush about 2'6" high and wide in my garden - sevenish years old.
No attempt to climb yet. Always in bloom. Overall a larger but more compact bush than the one sold as Slater's or Carlesruhe Cemetery Red China which haven't grown higher than 12 - 18" in twice that time.
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Reply #14 of 21 posted 13 SEP by billy teabag
Most grateful to you for collecting "Prospect Hill Red China" Margaret.
I think it's a wonderful Rose.
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Reply #15 of 21 posted 13 SEP by Give me caffeine
It doesn't appear to be listed on HMF.
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Reply #16 of 21 posted 13 SEP by billy teabag
We need to do something about that.
Will be home in a month or so and will put a detailed description together and take some photos then.
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Reply #17 of 21 posted 13 SEP by Give me caffeine
So, in brief, what's the difference between it and Slater's?
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Reply #18 of 21 posted 13 SEP by billy teabag
Prospect Hill is quite similar - just scaled up.
At our place "Prospect Hill" makes a larger plant than the other red Chinas like Slater's, (but not as large as Cram Sup at the HRIA repository at Renmark.)
Blooms are similar - crimson-red, slightly incurved. Both Ve ry recurrent.
You get that Raspberry confectionary fragrance from both on certain days. Both make small red hips.
Will do a proper comparison when I'm home again. I suspect they will look almost identical on paper apart from relative size.
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Reply #19 of 21 posted 13 SEP by Patricia Routley
Billy, I have added a file for "Prospect Hill Red China" so when you do your detailed description, you can add it to the file itself.
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Reply #20 of 21 posted 14 SEP by billy teabag
Thanks very much Patricia.
Do you have this one too?
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Reply #21 of 21 posted 14 SEP by Patricia Routley
No.
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most recent 1 SEP HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 31 AUG by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Fantastic picture. I wish every rose has a picture like yours.
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Reply #1 of 5 posted 31 AUG by Margit Schowalter
Thank you StrawChicago.
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Reply #2 of 5 posted 31 AUG by Give me caffeine
Agreed. That's brilliant.
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Reply #3 of 5 posted 31 AUG by Margit Schowalter
Thank you for your comments.
I am hoping others will copy the idea and put their own botanical type pictures up on HMF. I tried several background colours and the black poster board ($1.00) gave the truest colours. My camera is a $100.00 "point n' shoot" with a setting for "foliage". It usually takes about 10 trial and error shots to get one with the ideal exposure.
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Reply #4 of 5 posted 1 SEP by billy teabag
This is great!
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Reply #5 of 5 posted 1 SEP by Give me caffeine
Ok, I'll try to do a few then.
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most recent 1 SEP HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 31 AUG by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Best reference for any rose !! Great picture.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 1 SEP by billy teabag
agree!
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most recent 31 AUG HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 31 AUG by billy teabag
Some additional references from Australian nursery catalogues and Australian Rose Annuals.

1929 Hazlewood Bros.
p70. No 192 of 200 based on previous year’s sales.
Dorina Neave (H.T.) ( Pemberton, 1926), 3. Silvery pink, large, fairly full pointed globular flowers carried erect on stiff stems. The growth is good, but foliage shows slight mildew. The blooms average 30 petals and are Tea scented. Recommended . E.

1930 Hazlewood Bros.
p66. No 174 of 200 based on previous year’s sales.
Dorina Neave (H.T.) ( Pemberton, 1926), 3. Silvery pink, large, fairly full pointed globular flowers carried erect on stiff stems. The growth is good, but foliage shows slight mildew. The blooms average 30 petals and are Tea scented. Recommended . E.

1932 Hazlewood Bros.
P73 Does not appear in list of 200 best sellers but is included in a supplementary list of available roses – name only – no description or comments.

This is the last mention I have found to it in Hazlewood cats.

Entries in other Australian catalogues:

Law Somner, Melbourne, 1928
P130 Dorina Neave The colour is a delightful silvery pink. The large, full, pointed, globular flowers are carried erect on stiff stems. Fragrant. 2/6

Dawson and Harrison, Perth, 1932
P9. Dorina Neave The colour is a delightful silvery pink. The large, full-pointed flowers are carried erect on stiff stems. It is Tea scented and the blooms have about 30 petals.

George Knight and Sons, Homebush, NSW, 1938
P27 Dorina Neave (H.T.) - A strong grower, free bloomer, on good long strong stems; first class garden or exhibition; colour, pale flesh pink.

TG Stewart, Box Hill Victoria 1941
P4 Dorina Neave (H.T.) Delicate silvery pink. The large, full pointed blooms are carried erect on stiff stems. Compact growth. Free flowering and fragrantly scented.


References in the Australian Rose Annual
1928 p 39 In his assessment of recently introduced decorative roses Sydney nurseryman Harry Hazlewood writes, “ There are several others of somewhat lesser value, though still good. Briarcliff, a pink Columbia sport; Dorina Neave, silvery pink; Golden Gleam, somewhat like Golden Emblem but smaller and with less petals; Mrs Lovell Swisher, lilac rose, with good shape and growth.”

1929 p153 – “Dorina Neave – A moderate grower only with me, but has many good points. Colour silvery pink; stems strong and erect; flowers freely, and have used them for exhibition purposes at times.” (Mr J.W. Firth, Thornbury, Victoria.)

1930 p 86 – Dorina Neave - listed among favourite paler pink roses for decoration. (Edith V. Oliver. Essenden, Victoria.)

1931 p81 – “Dorina Neave is a dual purpose rose for garden or exhibition, of a beautiful silvery pink of excellent shape and good growth.” (Alick Ross, Ashton, South Australia.)
1931 p109 – “Dorina Neave – Light silvery pink, darker on back of petals; large size; fine form.” (Ballarat Rose Test Garden – JW Clegg, Ballarat, Victoria)

1933 p93 Dorina Neave - Listed among roses in which “The Pernetiana strain is not very apparent, but there is undoubted evidence that Pernetiana blood is represented.” (Harry Hazlewood, Epping, NSW)

1938 p148 – Dorina Neave - Included in 24 Garden Roses recommended by the National Rose Society of Western Australia.

1939 p153 – Dorina Neave - Included in 24 Garden Roses recommended by the National Rose Society of Western Australia.
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