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'La Reine' rose Reviews & Comments
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San Juan Settler is not La Reine, and needs to go back to it's own page. The error was because it was planted next to La Reine in the park in San Juan Bautista. The plants were own-root, and over the years have suckered into each other. They are now 3 plants that each produce two kinds of blooms. Apparently, when Fred collected the cutting he used to produce the plant used in the DNA study, they weren't blooming, so he didn't realize the problem. I noticed the problem in the plants last year, and showed it to Sherri and others. The La Reine isn't labeled, so we didn't realize why there were two types of flowers right away. It was only when I saw that SJS had been reassigned to La Reine that I figured it out. I reread the DNA study, then discussed it with Sherri, who is in agreement with me on how the error occurred. I don't think any of the pictures here are of SJS, but some of the references are. When you put it back on its own page, I can provide some pictures.
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Sitting proudly back in its own page. Well done to you two eagle-eyed observers - my regards to Sherri.
I have added your comment and Fred's of 2009 as I feel that had to pertain to "San Juan Settler".
When you have more details on the characteristics, just comment and we'll add them to "San Juan Settler"s page
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Journal des Roses (April 1880) p. 52
Suivant des notes qui nous ont été adressées par M. Margottin père, l'habile rosiériste de Bourg la Reine, la magnifique variété de rose la Reine dont nous avons publié la gravure dans notre dernier numéro, vient d'un semis de graines provenant d'un rosier non remontant, nommé Attala.
Following notes that have been sent by Mr. Margottin father, the clever rosiériste of Bourg-la-Reine, the magnificent rose variety la Reine which we published in our last issue engraving, just sowing of seeds from a non-remontant rose, called Attala.
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The Rose Book, a practical treatise on the culture of the rose (1864)
James Shirley Hibberd
Many roses will make a good start in soils quite unfit for them, and when the first flush of youth is over they sicken and become worthless, or die outright; and on the best of soils for general purposes there are some sorts that refuse to make themselves "at home." Where Gloire de Rosamene does well you are pretty sure to find that La Reine turns consumptive, and vice versa.
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#1 of 1 posted
6 MAY 13 by
Tessie
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This is very interesting as I'd come to the same conclusion recently myself but due to the performance of entirely different roses. Now I find someone knew all about this phenomenon long before I was even born!
In my case what I've noticed in Southern California is that those people who have teas and chinas perform superbly for them, generally have terrible trouble with albas, damasks, gallicas, hybrid perpetuals, and rugosas. Whereas for me it is the exact opposite. I can't grow teas and chinas to save my life, in spite of trying multiple different ones from different sources for close to 20 years. They arrive healthy and quickly become afflicted by one or more diseases, grow backwards, and most die within a couple years or so. The other categories such as albas, damasks, gallicas, hp's, and rugosas are very, very easy for me, grow like weeds, and flower like gangbusters. All with no trouble at all, little to no fertilizer or mulch, and no soil amendments. Both the water and soil here are alkaline too. In addition, roses grafted on multiflora or with lots of multiflora genes also flourish, whereas wichuranas struggle. And in case anyone is curious about "winter chill" this area gets very little. Apple trees perform notoriously badly (don't fruit).
Btw I grew La Reine (from Antique Rose Emporium in Texas) in the past on a piece of property I no longer own but in the same city as my current garden. It was wonderful. Healthy as could be (absolutely clean leaves), treated the same as my other roses (low/no fertilizer/mulch), bloomed heavily with fragrant flowers and was densely foliaged. I haven't tried Gloire de Rososmene....
Below are 2 photos provided as an example of performance in my garden. Both pictures were taken on the same day. Both plants are growing in pots under the very same tree (a ginko--see the trunk in the background, it provides only very light shade). Fed the same, watered the same. Napoleon is on the left and "Benny Lopez" is on the right. Napoleon has the typical look of a china in my garden, covered in China crud. Benny Lopez has no mildew at all. I've never had a china that wasn't either a mildew or a rust magnet or both (and they never grow out of it). Btw I do not and have never sprayed my plants. Teas if anything perform worse than chinas. Plus they also may blackspot (a rarity here). One even had all 3--rust, midlew, and blackspot--simultaneously. Napoleon's pot has been relocated various times, with no change noted in the amount of mildew.
Melissa
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The rose sold in Australia as 'La Reine' is usually 'John Hopper'.
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#1 of 3 posted
12 OCT 11 by
 jedmar
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THey do look similar. How would you distinguish them?
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La Reine is described as having very large flowers. John Hopper can be an intense colour at times. It's complicated because the substitution apparently occurred very early, and we don't have a "gold standard" for La Reine here. There is a widespread foundling which may be La Reine, but Baronne Prevost, Anna de Diesbach and Archiduchesse Elizabeth d'Autriche have also been thrown into the discussion. We don't have a "gold standard" for Anna either (that foundling was circulated under the name). Same old problems: many similar roses, early descriptions which aren't clear enough, colour change of early illustrations with time.
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There are no "gold standards" of these roses out where I live, much less any nurseries. I have had to go to the books to identify my two foundlings, but as i have just read an appalling fact in the 1930 American Rose Annual, p53 that there were 3,000 HPs listed, of which only 30 were being grown as at 1930, so anything I come up with is really only guesswork.
However, I believe Brent Dickerson's plates in "The Old Rose Advisor" will be the best guide. Note on plate 101, the petals of 'John Hopper' are curving out and downward; and on plate 90 for 'La Reine', they are curving up and and inward. For me the petals of 'John Hopper' arrange themselves in a way that I have not seen in any other rose. The outer edges roll under themselves and create a puffiness in the flower that reminds me of a foot-stool pouffe. The flower ends up being almost as deep as it is wide.
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