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Discussion id : 113-130
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Initial post yesterday by Patricia Routley
Member Saintourist has said in a Photo Comment:
"this rose found in Vietnam with the name Old Rose 'Bạch Trà' , meaning: White Tea. No one know when it came to Vietnam. People use it to flavor tea."

This is a most exciting find. How did who decide that the rose was in fact the polyantha ''Princesse Wilhelmine des Pays-Bas' 1886? Had the name been passed down through family records? From the two photos, It certainly looks correct. However there was also a china rose called 'White Tea' from 1821. The style of flowering should tell.
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Discussion id : 113-127
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Initial post yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
Two alternative names for this rose are, "Rosa alba flore simplici" and "Single White Rose", yet all the photographs and paintings show a semi-double rose.
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Discussion id : 113-126
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Initial post yesterday by Les Racines du Vent
I posted this already under 'Eurydice' but it's accurate here as well.
It seems in Europe (some?) Aennchen von Tharau is identical to (some?) Eurydice. And comparing the references, i must say I cannot decide wich is wich, especially when Eurydice is generally considered to be a mislabelled Jean Lafitte.
If anyone ever noticed this or would have further opinion please do contribute!
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Discussion id : 113-036
most recent 2 days ago SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 7 days ago by armand_212
This looks a lot like Maggie
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Reply #1 of 12 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thanks Armand. I've Noted that in the 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' file - and it is also Noted in the "Maggie" (syn. Eugène E. Marlitt) file.
It would be valuable to find out how old this "very old Chinese cultivar" actually is - or when it was first referenced in China.
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Reply #2 of 12 posted 4 days ago by armand_212
Hello, its chinese name is 紫燕飞舞, if you google it you will see lots of pics and info (you may need google translate!) There are also a couple of websites from china and japan that indicate that this is Eugene Marlitt aka Maggie, and ive grown Maggie for decades and seen its growth habit in europe, asia and the usa, and I can say its a splitting image.
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Reply #3 of 12 posted 4 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thanks Armand. I have added that chinese synonym.
You are the second person to say 'Zi Yan Fei (or Fe) Wu' is the same as "Maggie".
John Hook also noted that in his comment (below) that his plant of 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' appeared to be the same as "Kakinada Red".

It would appear that 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' should carry the double quotes of a "foundling", and merged with 'Eugène E. Marlitt'. But I am really cautious with this one and would love to have more input from rosarians - and perhaps that earliest date for Zi Yan Fei Wu.
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Reply #4 of 12 posted 4 days ago by HubertG
This also makes you wonder more about other "old" Chinese roses such as 'Tipsy Imperial Concubine'.
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Reply #5 of 12 posted 4 days ago by armand_212
Well, in Dr Wang Guoliang's book Old Roses in China, this rose is reported to be called Bao Xiang (Precious Portrait) by the Chinese, and Dancing Purple Swallows by the Japanese (the ancient japanese used chinese characters), and a rose by this name has been recorded since the Song Dynasty (960–1279AD), And he surmises that they are all the same, including Maggie, Pacific, Kakinada Red, Eugene Marlitt. Although I must say that the Kakinada Red I saw in India didn't look similar...
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Reply #6 of 12 posted 3 days ago by Patricia Routley
For Armand_212 - and others.
Forgive my slowness Armand. It is spring and the sun is shining after months of grizzle drizzle - I should be "out there" so I am not concentrating too well. But as "Maggie" is a really important rose I am not going to do anything without the input from others.

It seems that we should:
Give 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' the double quotes of a foundling.
Change the name of "Maggie" (syn. Eugène E. Marlitt) - to just "Maggie"
Change the name of "Pacific" (syn. Eugène E. Marlitt) - to just "Pacific".
Merge "Zi yan Fei Wu" with "Maggie".
Make a new file for 'Madame Eugène E. Marlitt' (syns 'Eugène E. Marlitt' and 'Eugénie John Marlitt')
Transfer all relevant references for...Marlitt....out of "Maggie" and into the new 'Madame Eugenie E. Marlitt' file.
Transfer all photos entered under the name of ....Marlitt... out of "Maggie" and into 'Madame Eugenie E. Marlitt'.
(There are about 23 or so photos that were added under the name of ....Marlitt. Are any of these ....Marlitt, or are they all "Maggie".)
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Reply #7 of 12 posted 2 days ago by Patricia Routley
In the absence of "other's" direction, I am tackling this rose as best I can.
What are the correct spellings please.
Zi Yan Fei Wu
Zi Yan Fe Wu

Bao Xiang
Baoxiang
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Reply #8 of 12 posted 2 days ago by armand_212
HI

The correct forms are "Zi Yan Fei Wu" and "Bao Xiang"
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Reply #9 of 12 posted 2 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thank you. I've merged the files. Please take a look. At this stage, 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' carries the single quotes and "Bao Xiang" carries the double quotes of a foundling.
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Reply #10 of 12 posted 2 days ago by armand_212
Hi, Eugene Marlitt is commonly used as a synonym for this rose and many people believe that it is the same rose as which is commonly known as Maggie and Bao Xiang etc. should there be a mention of that on the maggie page?
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Reply #11 of 12 posted 2 days ago by Patricia Routley
There is Armand. See the last line of the Notes.

Probably the line in the 2011 reference: "Hungarian rose breeder Rudolf Geschwind first introduced it as 'Julius Fabianics de Misefa', but it was later distributed as 'Eugen E. Marlitt'. " needs to be explored further, but I do not have the resources to do that.
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Reply #12 of 12 posted 2 days ago by Patricia Routley
Armand, I have been reading Gregg Lowery's excellent article in the 2006 Rosa Mundi and adding bits and pieces from it to the references. It is an absolutely fascinating article, made even more fascinating for me by my long-held thoughts that my Australian foundling "Wilson Street Nannup" may be the same as "Maggie". I will certainly get a sucker of my rose and get it out into a full sun area to see if it repeats then. Thank you for your help, patience and advice.
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