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'Betty Boop ™' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 44-806
most recent 13 MAY 12 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Betty Boop is da BOMB.
I have been coveting her in others' gardens for years now. She sings, she acts, she dances, she models and all the while she's so strong, healthy AND generous with her talent. What other rose gives you such a stunning yellow/orange 2-Tone Hot Combo and then she fades to a (just as pretty) heartbreakingly sweet white/cerise 2-Tone Cool Combo? Only the forever BLOOMING BETTY BOOP! Her only moderation is a subtle perfume. If you only like full dairy queen shaped hybrid teas she's not your girl, but I've always liked a variety of rose types, including singles, semi-doubles, and floribundas.
I have been enrolled in a strict ROSE RESTRICTION CONTROL PROGRAM designed for rose addicts. At one time I had well over 400 neglected roses (now down to 150) and in my recovery program I am only allowed to purchase a new rose if I give one away. Finally I gave some of my beloved roses to my next door neighbor (JFK, Tiffany, Intrigue) so I was allowed to hire the multi -threat Ms Boop to entertain in my very own rose show. She's earning standing ovations every day.
She deserves an Oscar, Emmy, Tony, Grammy etc etc etc..
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Reply #1 of 45 posted 17 MAY 10 by schoolteacher loves roses
You are spot on about BB. My favorite rose ever. The prettiest colors and long lasting flowers brighten my life so much.
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Reply #2 of 45 posted 17 MAY 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Yeah, but she ages BADLY here and doesn't self clean very well. I can't get past it. She might be pretty where you are, but I live in a warmer climate, and it's just plain ugly. It takes a hedge trimmer to get rid of all those nasty old faded hips and blossoms.
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Reply #3 of 45 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Your the first person I have heard complain about a plant producing too many roses.
If a rose works hard enough to create the roses I don't mind deadheading 'em off.
The bushes I've seen in Palm Springs (in the summer) are really healthy plants with very tiny flowers. Do you get normal sized flowers during the other 3 seasons
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Reply #4 of 45 posted 17 MAY 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I like BB when the blossoms are new. I don't like the way it fades here. They last forever and then they get ratty looking until they are deadheaded one way or another. That's the problem.

"Do you get normal sized flowers during the other 3 seasons"

Yes, and our Fall cool down takes much longer than in other climates. We get some of our best blossoms in Fall and Winter. Spring on the other hand is often shorter than we'd prefer. This year is atypical. We've had much cooler weather than usual.
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Reply #5 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Sounds like the Gold Medal fade, yuk. In LA, Betty goes from fire to pastel in the fade, which is one of the very few rose fades that I have ever found pleasant.
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Reply #11 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by CarolynB
Robert, we get a lot of summer heat here, but I guess not as much as you get. My Betty Boop doesn't get ratty looking here, like you're describing. The blooms eventually (after a long time) get faded enough not to look so exciting anymore, but that's it -- she mostly looks pretty to the end. However, she stops blooming when the weather gets really hot. Other than that, I'm delighted with my Betty Boop -- she's such a cheerful-looking presence in the yard, and she reblooms readily as long as the weather isn't extremely hot.
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Reply #6 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by Lyn G
Robert........

A friend of mine is growing BB up here in the NOCAL mountains and with temps in the triple digits for weeks at a time, BB just can't show her potential to be a beauty. The blooms do age horribly.

Lyn
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Reply #7 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Lyn, yes, as you know, no rose is great everywhere. BB just another example.

Tim, I'm with you on 'Gold Medal'. The fade can be pleasant in certain climates but then it just isn't good. I was working for Armstrong when that one came out. I never warmed up to it.
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Reply #8 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
What are the best choices for that kind of evil heat?
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Reply #9 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Nothing is great. It's best just to wait it out like most folks do in Winter. We call it Summer dormancy.

Things like 'St. Patrick' hold up better than most. Still, it's not a favorite of mine.
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Reply #10 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
There is a great big red HT, looks a little like Mr Lincoln, that grows well for my family members who live in baking Porterville, Ca. When I went to a huge nursery during the summer to pick out some more roses for their garden, this variety (unnamed at the nursey) was the only one that wasn't fried to pieces among the potted roses, so I purchased three more of the same kind, what ever it is. Any clue as to the identity?
Also the mini, Sweet Chariot was in full bloom there, growing like a 3 ft. floribunda in the wet sand of their 109 degree heat. I used to think that it was a fragile rose which needed a touch shade with protection from the heat..
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Reply #12 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by Rosaholic's Southern California Garden
Matching the climate of a rose's breeder to the climate in which the rose will be grown often works. In terms of "standing up to intense heat," I would look to Ralph Moore's roses.

Also the red rose known alternately as Toro or Uncle Joe is a heat lover - or maybe that's what you already have.
And Moonstone and its clan.
And for newer introductions, try Estelle and Green Romantica -- those are roses that have trouble opening here because my climate does not have enough heat.
And most any florist rose -- they are bred with the idea in mind that they should hold on to their petals through a lot of shipping abuse, including heat.
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Reply #13 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by Sarah
Red Masterpiece has held up very well for me in 100+ degree temperatures - blooms AND continues to grow as long as it gets enough water.
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Reply #16 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Rosaholic,
Jotted those names down, Gracias! I do have a Teneke (quite nicely formed, full Florist white-no scent though) cutting that's gotten pretty big, so I'll take that up to them. I have Prima Donna too but those are the only Florist Roses that I know of. Do you grow any Florist Roses?
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Reply #14 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Tim, Rosaholic hit the nail on the head with 'Toro' sometimes known as 'Uncle Joe'. It's likely the red your relatives in Porterville grow.

Btw, Porterville is nothing compared to Palm Springs in terms of Summer heat. I used to take horticulture classes in Porterville while in high school, weird, but true.

Porterville isn't very far away from where Ralph Moore's Sequoia Nsy. was located.

Sarah, is also right about 'Red Masterpiece'. It one of the great forgotten reds. I forget about it and then forget to recommend it. It's has really nice form, it's vigorous, heat resistant and fragrant, great cut flower. It needs to be promoted much more often. Why it isn't better known remains a mystery. It just never took off for some reason.
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Reply #15 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Got Red Masterpiece in LA and gave a cutting to my neighbor, which of course is doing better than my mother plant. It's mistaken for Mr Lincoln by some, but for me and for her, RM blooms 5 times more than ML and we love it. Great to know it will tolerate the heat, maybe that's the one in Porterville. Glad to see so many RMast. fans out there.
I know and have tortured El Toro / Uncle Joe myself, I could never get that red football rack going. Though I've seen it around for years I have only seen it doing well once, in a semi- neglected South Central LA yard, but boy was it an impressive site. I'll start looking for it again (for them) in the bare root bins next winter. So it kicks ass in the desert?
I used to insist on a visit to Ralph Moore's place when I visited my brother's family, maybe that's where that big Polyantha looking Sweet Chariot came from. Is anyone familiar with his former employee's Burlington Rose Nursery? Anyone grown Anvil Sparks, she sells it there.
The family lived in the Sequoia Forest back when we used to go his nursery and all my Ralph gifts to them are at the former house. I didn't realize Moore's roses were Heat Proof.
What are everyone's fave heat proof roses? My best friend (fellow rosaholic) moved to St Helena,Ca (very hot Napa summer days w/ cool nights and winters) from St Monica and he's whining that he's lost his golden touch w/ roses up there.
Thank you all for the interesting rose tales and info!!
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Reply #17 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by CarolynB
"What are everyone's fave heat proof roses?": Julia Child does well for me here in zone 9, even in our summer heat. It looks like Our Lady of Guadalupe will do well in our heat, too -- mine isn't thoroughly established yet, but she did pretty well her first summer here last year, blooming more than my established roses did. Betty Boop usually stays looking good foliage-wise in our heat (except when our highest triple-digit temps last a long time), although she stops blooming.
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Reply #18 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
'Julia Child' is good in our heat.

It isn't the most exciting yellow in the world but it's hard to knock it. I like it much better than most. IMO, it's a very good rose. I like it much better than St. Patrick but of course it doesn't have the high centers many look for.
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Reply #19 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by CarolynB
Julia Child's color is so variable that sometimes her color looks exciting and sometimes it doesn't. My only disappointment with her is that she fades so quickly, to a somewhat drab-looking almost-offwhite. But she has so much else going for her that, as you said, it's hard to knock her.
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Reply #20 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
At the USC Rose Garden near downtown LA, there are about a 65 beds of 2o bushes each. Every bed is dedicated to one variety. You can spot out the solid yellow cotton patch bed of the Julia Childs a mile away, it's so floriferous. Reminds me of a smaller Austin.

Robert DG,
What's your beef with St Pat? I've always admired it and felt like I was a bit deprived cuz I don't own one. My organic gardner friend near Pasadena has a monster SP that grows to the top of her big 2 story Victorian-type farm house. It is fed w/ nothing but redwood bark drenched with horse poop from the Santa Anita race track.
Whats your ultimate yellow?
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Reply #21 of 45 posted 18 MAY 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Tim, maybe 'St. Patrick' does what it does too well. I dunno what it is, probably just personal preference It just leaves me flat for some reason.

I don't care for roses that go green for one thing. The blossoms last forever. I wish it were fragrant and that the color was a little more interesting.

I don't hate it. I just don't love it enough to give it space in my garden. It's a great one for exhibitors but I don't exhibit and have no plans to.
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Reply #22 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by CarolynB
Does anyone else have any favorite heat-tolerant roses to tell us about? I'd really like to know about more of them. Are there any roses that can stand up to being next to a west-facing white wall in zone 9?
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Reply #23 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by Lyn G
Carolyn............

I have a hard time finding any plant that can deal with triple digit temps for weeks at a time planted next to a wall that reflects additional heat. Actually, my best solution was to plant irises next to the wall and allow their leaves to absorb the heat and plant roses in front of them. It's not the perfect solution, but it's worked better than other things I have tried.

Smiles,
Lyn
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Reply #25 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by CarolynB
Regarding your comment: "I have a hard time finding any plant that can deal with triple digit temps for weeks at a time planted next to a wall that reflects additional heat.":
I was hoping that, even if there was no rose that would work in this spot, at least maybe something else would -- maybe something semitropical like bougainvillea. Actually, our temps are not generally triple-digit for weeks at a time -- just sometimes for a few days at a time. They can be in the mid to high 90s for weeks at a time. Does that make a difference regarding whether something would work in that spot?
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Reply #32 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by Lyn G
The goal is to block the reflected heat so that the rose plant doesn't fry. I doubt if bougainvillea would serve that purpose.

As for the blooms, Robert is correct in that florist roses can withstand high temps better than most roses because they have a heavy petal substance.

Smiles,
Lyn
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Reply #24 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by Lyn G
I forgot... you can do a SEARCH for heat tolerent roses on HMF by using the ADVANCED SEARCH, click on GROWING, scroll down and check the box for HEAT TOLERANT, click CONTINUE, click SEARCH and ten pages of roses will appear for your to review. As a non-premium member, you still may use the ADVANCED SEARCH for one criteria.

I am certain there are more roses that are heat tolerant that are in the database, but we don't have specific COMMENTS or REFERENCES suggesting that we list a given rose as HEAT TOLERANT.

Smiles,
Lyn
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Reply #27 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by timdufelmeier
THANKS, Lyn. Didn't realize the advanced search had so many great options.
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Reply #33 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by Lyn G
Tim,

I am going to start a new thread about the ADVANCED SEARCH so that other site users can find my response.

Smiles,
Lyn
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Reply #26 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
One of the most heat resistant roses I can think of is 'Mrs. B.R. Cant'.
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Reply #28 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by timdufelmeier
I had that rose once and liked it, but my gardener killed it accidentally before it got as huge as it is supposed to. I like the eucalyptus smell. Is your bush the "mountain of pink" that I've read about?
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Reply #29 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
'Mrs. B.R. Cant' is one of the best roses of all types. It's disease resistant, repeat is excellent, vigorous and can get large over time. It builds. Doesn't like to be cut hard.

I love the fragrance. Sort of reminds me of Grapefruit.
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Reply #30 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by CarolynB
Thanks for this information, Robert. I don't think I currently have an available space big enough for the size it sounds like this rose attains. But I'll definitely keep it in mind for future reference.
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Reply #31 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
You can keep it smaller but I would never cut it back more than a third. I've cut mine hard and it takes quite a while to recover. If you prune it lightly and often you should have no problem.
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Reply #34 of 45 posted 19 JUL 10 by CarolynB
That's good to know -- thanks. When HMF says "resist the urge to prune this one heavily -- it doesn't like it", that's not specific enough to know how much is okay to prune.
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Reply #35 of 45 posted 20 JUL 10 by timdufelmeier
Years ago I started pruning just bit more than I do while deadheading, on my Teas. They grew into the big bushes that I wanted much faster.
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Reply #36 of 45 posted 20 JUL 10 by CarolynB
This is good to know, also. Does this technique work with other types of roses too, or just teas?
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Reply #37 of 45 posted 20 JUL 10 by timdufelmeier
Supposedy if one lives in a mild climate, you never need to prune lower than the heighth that you want your rose bush to be. Just remove dead or twiggy branches & canes. It works especially well for prune-phobic teas. This info came from Vintage Roses about an RNS study. The light pruning technique means less water and food too.
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Reply #38 of 45 posted 20 JUL 10 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Right
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Reply #39 of 45 posted 22 JUL 10 by Cass
Light pruning works on many roses, but not all. Some roses thrive from the stimulation of pruning and decline if unpruned. Because I live in a mild climate, I always prune lightly at first. If the rose doesn't respond as I like, I prune harder.
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Reply #40 of 45 posted 22 JUL 10 by timdufelmeier
Hi Cass,
Nice to hear from you again! How're you babies in No Cal doing this summer? This is the coolest May-June-July I can remember since I moved to LA in '79. Good for the roses, horrible for the plumerias.
What type in general, or specifically, have you found to thrive off of a good pruning?
I used to be a chopper, esp for winter, then I started noticing all these healthier than hell (if somewhat rangey) bushes in neglected spots, where they were never getting pruned (and barely watered, probably never fed), that were blooming bigger and better than my well coiffured children. Now I think I maybe going overboard in sparing the pruners.
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Reply #41 of 45 posted 23 JUL 10 by Cass
Let me qualify. I always prune for a purpose and prefer to describe it as training to generate vigorous new growth. I never hack everything in sight down to knee height. But I do go in and remove wood surgically in almost every class.

So...Hybrid perpetuals generally like pruning. The more intelligently I prune them, the better they like it. Leave them unpruned, and they do nothing. Gallicas like pruning, more specifically, thinning weak wood and then shortening to self-supporting canes. Portlands like pruning and get floppy if left unpruned. Most HT's and Grandifloras love pruning, go into a decline if left unpruned and refuse grow decent new wood until pruned. I was taught that by found roses I thought were Teas based on appearance. After they did nothing for years, I pruned hard and they shot up.

I've had the odd modern shrub, usually winter hardy types, that also decline in left unpruned. The two I'm thinking of are both Town and Country roses that did nothing until I pruned to 4 inches! Shrubs are a mish mash, somes like it, others don't. Golden Wings loves pruning, which is odd given its spinosissima heritage. Lots of roses, including mature Teas, benefit from thinning. After they reach mature size, they often have so much weak wood that it saps the strength of the plant instead of supporting it. Climbers like pruning. They respond to thinning by producing strong, longer basals or long continuing laterals. Ramblers often demand pruning. Some won't use the same flowering wood two years in a row.

What is true is that many young roses are pruned to death. That's usually caused by inexperience. We all do it when we start growing own-root Old Garden Roses and the only advice we can find is for growing Exhibition Hybrid Teas.

I've also found classes of roses that hate cane shortening and will sulk and die if you do it to them. Spins come to mind. Certain climbers want the entire basal removed, not shortened, or they'll do the same.

Pruning everything the same way and not pruning at all are both over-rated. End of rant.
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Reply #42 of 45 posted 23 JUL 10 by timdufelmeier
Thanks for the information!
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Reply #43 of 45 posted 31 MAR 11 by CarolynB
Quote: "I've also found classes of roses that hate cane shortening and will sulk and die if you do it to them. Spins come to mind."

What are the other classes of roses that hate cane shortening or hard pruning?
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Reply #44 of 45 posted 31 MAR 11 by Cass
CarolynB, It's really a large topic. I grow roses both for the beauty of the flower and the grace of the plant. A beautiful bloom on an ugly plant is not my objective. Given that bias, budded vs own root, mild vs harsh climate, even whether rain falls during or outside the growing season affect how to best prune. What I found most instructive was understanding the heritage of the rose. If it is derived from certain classes or species, I know better (a) how it will grow (shape and habit) and (b) how it wants to be pruned.

There are both classes and cultivars that resent being stubbed down. I'm sure that for each instance I suggest, there will be a gardener somewhere who prunes the roses I name to knee height every year. Pernetianas don't love to be nibbled at, and their hybrids are often the same. Bourbons, Hybrid Giganteas, Hybrid Musks, Mosses, don't need to be hacked down to a certain sized wood. Same already noted for Teas, Chinas and Noisettes. That's not the same as not liking pruning.

Let me try to be clearer: there are different ways to prune. We can thin by removing entire old or weak canes, we can shorten to stouter wood, we can remove old, dead, diseased and unproductive canes in their entirety but otherwise leave the rose alone, we can selectively prune for shape, or we can do every rose the same, no matter its heritage.
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Reply #45 of 45 posted 13 MAY 12 by Chris
thank you for the advice.
i hate to see Frau Karl Druschki looking so frumpy!
will trim her asap.
christine
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Discussion id : 57-273
most recent 16 SEP 11 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 16 SEP 11 by Judith C.
Available from - Pépinières de la Saulaie
www.pepinieresdelasaulaie.fr
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Discussion id : 46-927
most recent 19 JUL 10 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 19 JUL 10 by Amy's Idaho Rose Garden
Ditto ditto ditto....If you are looking for disease resistant, hardy, blooming machine, heat tolerate with fantastic color then BB is the plant for you!
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Discussion id : 43-834
most recent 18 MAY 10 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 11 APR 10 by Laurie Newman
I am a proud Australian. My profile illustrates that I am also a keen rosarian. Since visiting Mornington Botanical Rose Garden yesterday, it came again to me the sad conclusion that our "Cultural Cringe" is alive and well. I spotted two beds of Rosa 'Dame Elisabeth Murdoch', enclosed in two bays dedicated to and sponsored by that illustrious Australian lady. In view of her reputation and the great esteem with which she is held in Australia, I wondered just who chose this particular rose that was given the honour of her name. Be that as it may, it is an unremarkable rose bred in Germany, Rosa 'Speelwark', and to it second hand is given the name of a great Australian lady. The question needs to be asked as to why not an Australian bred rose? It is my opinion that that would be a much more appropriate option.

But then, "they" have been recklessly indifferent to recognising Australian bred roses since Alister Clark's roses were exported to America 80 years ago, resulting in the creation there of the "mystery virus" from Australia because of which we are still prohibited from exporting roses to USA. Recently the wheel has turned full circle, and we now don't accept roses directly from America. How in the past we have escaped "Witches Broom" and other "nasties" they have over there I don't know, and I expect that we can be very thankful for the protection of quarantine protocols.

During that period of time, it has been the practice of several Australian rose distributors from time to time, to bypass Australian roses and give a new name to an introduced rose, no doubt for commercial advantage. I will not name names. It is a historical fact, and it has happened with Rosa 'Speelwark'. Why is not an Australian bred rose chosen? Australian bred roses have been named for early explorers, and various religious centres of learning, but very few living Australians or significant national occasions. The centenary of Australian Federation was such an occasion, and rather than adopt an Australian rose for that celebration, "they" chose a rose with the name of a crazy cartoon-strip character, "Betty Boop"!!! In its gaudiness it may be attractive to many, but where is the innate Australian character befitting such an occasion? Australian roses were suggested, a very appropriate rose amongst them, but they were overlooked. Why? I am completely unaware how this rose was marketed with the new name Rosa 'Centenary of Federation'.

And now I see Rosa 'Rebell' has been renamed Rosa 'Australian Centenary of Federation'. Bred by Kordes of Germany in 2006, the connection with our federation, and how we got and why we need a second token of recognition of that occasion escapes me.

Australian bred roses are very good indeed, and compare favourably with those selected from overseas stock. In competition with roses submitted from overseas, Australian bred roses have performed very well at the Australian Rose Trial Garden in Adelaide for many years. A problem exists whereby growers and distributers in Australia dedicate their annual production to roses from their overseas principals in order to maintain the agency, to the almost total denial that Australian bred roses exist.

One brave Australian distributor is the exception, but it requires that the large rose interests and the general public seriously look at the quality roses available at home, and that are not generally made available to the general public.
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Reply #1 of 40 posted 15 APR 10 by Unregistered Guest
This contriutor later decided not to participate in this discussion.
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Reply #2 of 40 posted 15 APR 10 by Laurie Newman
George. Yes it may be unsettling, but we have to live with it, and I think the tide is turning towards Australian Bred roses. South Australian George Thompson and Victorian Bruce Chapman are doing great work, as is a new boy Warren Millington from Deniliquin. Check these pages for examples of their work. If only rests on the shoulders of Australian rose breeders to register their roses through the Australian Registrar for the free publicity available through free publication in Modern Roses 13.

Good Luck with your breeding. Consider contacting Australian Rose Breeders Association and Australian or New South Wales Rose Society for connections and information. We're all in it together.
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Reply #3 of 40 posted 15 APR 10 by Unregistered Guest
This contriutor later decided not to participate in this discussion.
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Reply #4 of 40 posted 17 APR 10 by Patricia Routley
Hmmm. Laurie, I can't help but note that your contributions to HelpMeFind do not carry that red star which indicate your help and support to this site!
Patricia.
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Reply #5 of 40 posted 2 MAY 10 by anonymous-377685
What does Austrailia have to do with Betty Boop?
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Reply #6 of 40 posted 4 MAY 10 by Laurie Newman
Rosa 'Betty Boop', an American bred rose, was chosen to recognise the Centenary of Federation for Australia. as if to say there is not an Australian bred rose adequate for this honour. Who made this decision?
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Reply #7 of 40 posted 4 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Gotcha. How often is this award given?
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Reply #8 of 40 posted 4 MAY 10 by Margaret Furness
Not an award, just a re-naming for commercial gain. There will no doubt be a rose named for the bicentenary in 2101 (of federation of the separate colonies in Australia, to become one nation).
I object to any rose being given multiple names for marketing purposes; and especially when a rose that already has a frivolous name is used to commemorate a special event or person.
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Reply #9 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
Australia (you included) should be honored and thrilled that Tom Carruth allowed such a marvelous rose to be co-named Australian Centenary of Freedom. Betty Boop is one of the finest to come out in past 30 years and it's obvious why the powers that be in your homeland were drueling over it. If Tom were from Tunisia or Antartica he would still be the King Breeder of the day.
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Reply #10 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Laurie Newman
Welcome to an American friend to this discussion about why Australian bred roses are not chosen to commemorate a uniquely Australian event. We have any number of locally bred roses that may be used for such purposes, especially for this auspicious occasion.

To my limited knowledge, Rosa 'Betty Boop' is as I described it, a gaudy rose named after a similarly gaudy American cartoon strip character, completely inappropriate to be chosen for the occasion of the Centenary of Federation of THIS country. Perhaps this latest un-named contributor can enlighten us as to its being "one of the finest to come out in past 30 years". Perhaps this contributor can also direct me to some evidence of the superior qualities(?) of this rose, for I can find none.
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Reply #11 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Dear Laurie,
Since you asked for evidence, you need look no further than the hmf roses site:
1. 14 favorite rose ratings- not bad for a relatively new introduction, eh?

2. check out the lovely positive remarks on this very "MEMBERS COMMENTS" site (a site which I must confess is a tad overladen with your Aussie inferiority complex diatribe, rather than RELEVANT comments about the subject: it's Betty Boop, isn't it?)

3. check out the awards tab for the Devine Ms Boop- WARNING: You may not have time to read them all in one sitting.

But then we certainly don't want to negate your obviously very strong feelings of patriotism with EASILY found facts now, or do we? Why not lighten up and deliver Ms Boop the applause she heartily deserves and leave politics out of the rose bed?
Personally, I agree with Empress Josephine who imported roses from the British despite their ongoing war with her Frenchmen and let's not forget Mr. Shakespeare: "A rose from whatever county is still a rose.."
Love from Los Angeles,
Tim
PS My brother Tad, who lives in Canberra, told me that Ms Boop has really painted the town. Enjoy!
PSS Since most of Mr Carruth's roses are so beyond magnifiScent here in LA, I'm sure you can experience the glory in Australia too- since we share your wonderful climate.
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Reply #14 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Laurie Newman
I'm sorry Tim, I've obviously touched a nerve. The name is Laurie by the way. There is no doubt that Tim Carruth has bred and is still breeding good roses, but he is not alone. The measure of a good rose is not necessarily popular opinion. Better qualification for excellence is to be gained from recognition by rose experts, such as is had from Trial Garden exposure and success around the world, All-American Rose Selection awards, James Alexander Gamble Award for fragrance, to name but a few. Politics? I don't see any.
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Reply #15 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Dear Laurie,
Maybe you didn't get chance to read the HMF Roses "AWARDS" tab on Betty, as I requested, but there you would find the AARS Award recognition that you seem to consider important, as well as MANY other awards. Why do you think the officials in Australia awarded it with the prestigious name in the first place? Don't you think they had any critera in choosing a rose for the title other than: it must be an American rose? As you must know, as a breeder, many roses have more than one name.
Personally I think popularity among we lowly rose gardeners is the proof in the pudding that a rose really works and satisfies. I've seen award winners and "rose of the year" selections fall by the wayside while less recognized roses have hung on to become classics because they have delivered to the public.
Anyway since Betty has been highly recognized by BOTH factions it makes your scorn for her all the more puzzling.
Now then, when you give Betty Boop a chance in your garden, and you must if you seriously want to live life to it's fullest (remember you did admit to limited knowledge of Ms Boop), no doubt, you will fall in love with and probably even begin to use her in your breeding program.
Humbly accepting your retraction in advance,
Tim
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Reply #20 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
My name is Tim and the legendary 13 time AARS winner's name is Tom Carruth.
If he were English he'd already have a title.
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Reply #12 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Dear Mr Laurie Newman,
Please don't deprive yourself of the superberific Della Reese, Crystalline, Ebb Tide, Wild Blue Yonder, Memorial Day, Rock & Roll, Legends, Barbra Streisand, Julia Child, Stainless Steel etc etc etc etc etc, just because they weren't bred by a citizen of Oz. Life is to short to live in your puritanical state of patriotic celibacy and restraint. Imagine if Dorothy had stayed in just Kansas!
Barbra Sreisand didn't wait for a New Yorker, Oprah didn't wait for a Tennessean, and Julia Child didn't wait for a Californian... they all called on Texan Tom Carruth because he's the Rose King of the World.
LONG LIVE AND ALL HAIL (and SMELL the roses of) THE KING!!!
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Reply #13 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Cass
I agree with both of you.

In my opinion, while we are expressing opinions, the Australian centenary should be commemorated by a rose bred by an Australian hybridizer. Nationalism should include honoring the home-grown.

I also think Tom Carruth is a prolific, successful and innovative hybridizer, producing terrific roses - a remarkable line of "Carruth blue roses" (Stainless Steel, Blueberry Hill, Barbra Streisand, Outta the Blue, Route 66, Neptune, Midnight Blue, Wild Blue Yonder, Night Owl, Ebb Tide); the russet Hot Cocoa; and many other commercially successful roses like Scentimental, Moonstone, Fourth of July, About Face, and Julia Child. One man's tasteful is another man's boring. Carruth works with a full palette of colors.
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Reply #16 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Dear Cass,
I hate to disagree with someone who bears my favorite name, and someone who gows so damn many roses, but....
Who cares where a breeder was born? It's the rose that counts! Pick the guy or gal who does the best job, or grows the best rose in this case. Who cares what side of a borderline somebody slipped out of a uterus? Since I was enlightened by people like Cass Elliot and her friend and your neighbor, Joan Baez, I don't go for all this flag waving stuff. Sadly, I think Laurie was doggin Betty soley because of her national origin.
PS
Why don't Cass, Joan or Aretha have roses named after them? Maybe Laurie could create them if he isn't focused on one for Olivia or the Bee Gees?
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Reply #17 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #18 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Sorry if I offended anyone with my mistake. I respect all sexes equally, so no harm intended.
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Reply #19 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #25 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Cass
Tim: I have not burdened these comments with what nationalism should NOT include. I am not waving the flag. I said "Nationalism should include honoring the home-grown," and I'll go to my pacifist-Northern California-wingnut-commie-pinko-radical grave saying the same thing.
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Reply #21 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
All-America Rose Selection [ 1999 ]

Floribunda (One Bloom)
Show / Date(s): Albuquerque Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Blytheville Rose Society Fall Rose Show [ 2001, 1999 ]
Central Arkansas Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Glendale Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Green Valley Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Holston Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Lake Superior Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Lewis County Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Lexington Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Marion County Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Medford Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Mid-Hudson Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Mount Diablo Rose Society [ 2000 ]
NEW (Northeast Wisconnsin) Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Ozarks Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Rose Society of Greater St. Louis [ 2001 ]
Rose Society of Tucson [ 2001 ]
San Joaquin Valley Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Schenectady Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Scottsdale Rose Society [ 2001, 2000 ]
Shasta Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Tulsa Rose Society [ 1999 ]
West Valley Rose Society [ 1998 ]

Floribunda Spray
Show / Date(s): Gold Country Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Greater Gwinnett Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Marin Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Millen Rose Society [ 2001 ]
San Diego Rose Society [ 2001 ]
San Mateo County Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Seattle Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Twin Cities - North Star Rose Societies [ 2001 ]
Twin Cities Rose Club [ 2000 ]
Tyler Rose Society [ 1999 ]
York Area Rose Society [ 2001 ]
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Reply #22 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #23 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Hey George,
If I had any say in it I would have been happy to choose Laurie Newman's China Sunrise- it looks amazing. Betty Boop has already enjoyed plenty of sucess anyway. I am all for the little guy getting a break, but Betty Boop is a star, and doesn't deserved to get bashed just because big business is unfair, sucks and doesn't always have the best of taste.
I do think nationality should be irrelevant in a selection process though. I also defend non-Americans, when they win commisions here, from Yanks complaining "it shoulda gone to an American"
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Reply #24 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #26 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Actually though ,George, that is not "all" he said. He called Betty Boop "gaudy and completley inappropriate." Since Mr Newman claims "politics" aren't involved, then he is attacking the vivacious star of this page. Let us all remember we are on Betty's page and she does deserve a modicum of respect if not admiration. She is such a hard worker.
Peace and Blessings,
Tim
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Reply #27 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #28 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Thats quite true, George, but I don't think you should feel obligated to assume the position of trying to whitewash the dreadful things Mr Newman said about poor Betty. Do you know her yourself? To grow her is to love her, and I'm sure you will, when you do. I know he's a skilled breeder, but does that justify his harsh remarks about this beloved STAR and AARS Winner? Even if Laurie Newman has denied any "political" considerations, I just can't help but feel he's being so cruel about Ms Boop just because she and her creator are Americans. I would never object and lobby for an American breeder if New Zealander Sam McCredy lV decided to rename Aotearoa something like: American Revolution Celebration Rose. I'd feel that the US celebration would have scored! I certainly wasn't offended that we used French Breeder Meilland for Miss All American Beauty instead of somebody from Jackson & Perkins like Eugene Boerner, although I certainly preferred the name Maria Callas for the sake of beauty.
Meanwhile let us try to be kinder to Betty Boop and Tom for all the joy they have provided the whole world, especially while visiting Betty's own page!!
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Reply #29 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #30 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Margaret Furness
I think 30 posts is more than adequate for any one discussion. Would HMF Admin please close it?
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Reply #31 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Margaret,
What are you afraid of? No one is shooting anybody. I admire Mr Newman's skill as a breeder, in fact I would purchase that beautiful apricot/ orange rose of his, CHINA EVENING, if I could, but that does not mean I will desert Poor Betty in the alley whilst she is being unfairly attacked.
I am a very loyal friend. Why do you find it necessary to be babysat by the hmf authorities, when we are merely expressing our opinions. Isn't traffic to the hmf site a good thing?
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Reply #33 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Margaret Furness
Boredom.
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Reply #37 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
now THAT is understandable. But just delete your email without checking hmf comments.
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Reply #35 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Lyn G
timdufelmeier......

"Isn't traffic to the hmf site a good thing?"

Yes, it is .... especially if you are a supporting member.

With Regards,

Lyn
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Reply #38 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
See, Margaret and Lyn, inane hmf arguments can be productive, I just joined. I actually have tried a couple times before but that d*** paypal thing wouldn't work.
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Reply #39 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Lyn G
Welcome to HMF ! and thank you for the support.

Lyn
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Reply #32 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Then George is it safe to assume you are a friend of Betty?
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Reply #34 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Which is your favorite? I am stuck in a 2 way tie between Della Reese and Strainless Steel.
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Reply #36 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #40 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Stainless Steel is perfection and I gave mine away to a dying friend whose gardener killed it anyway. Now I can't find it and I am going into withdrawls. It has been replaced with Neptune at most nurseries in LA. Once I went to a nursery that said SS was in and it was that damn Neptune with a SS label. I recently saw SWEETNESS, that J&P lavender Rose of the Year, and I was not too impressed. Lots of clusters. Hard to judge in a 5 gallon pot though.
Ebb Tide is too freaky for words. I brought a candelabra of about 6 blooms to my office and my co-workers griped "Why did you bring that artificial flower when you have so many pretty real roses in your garden." I just gave my EBB TIDE to my next door neighbor (who I intentionally got addicted to roses) because she was literally having a fit over it. She feeds and waters her flowers like a fiend (we use NO fungi or insecti cides) and now ET is covered with candelabra clusters like a SEXY REXY. That Wild Blue Yonder is MUCH prettier than I realized too. Is SS popular in Oz, it came an went fast here and nobody I know has or wants it. Roses are "out" right now in the US.
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