HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Complicata' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 63-195
most recent 30 NOV SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 2 APR 12 by Patricia Routley
I've searched my books and the earliest reference I can find is 1950. Strange....
REPLY
Reply #1 of 16 posted 28 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
That's an interesting comment Patricia, none of my older books mention it at all. But how come the profile gives a date of being bred before 1800, there must be some reference that mentions it as being an old garden rose? Was it known by a different name? I can't believe such an attractive garden worthy plant wouldn't be mentioned in old literature or such a cross only occurred in modern times.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 16 posted 28 NOV by Jay-Jay
Could it be the Rosa gallica 'Stapelia Flora' or Rosier de Provins à Fleurs de Stapelie?
Found that-one in Redouté.
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.60445
PS: I might have looked too much at the photo's of Hovman, they show darker (red instead of pink) flowers.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Patricia Routley
I don't know who added the 'Ariana d'Algier' synonym. That might have given us a clue. I have searched my computer for the word, Ariana, and came up with nothing.

Jay-Jay - It is wonderful that you searched and responded. Taking a close look at the (female) pistil in Redoute painting of 'Stapela flora', it is rounded and seems very different from the raised pistil in my hips. Complicata's sepals also seem to be simpler and more entire than 'Stapelia flora'. I'll add some photos.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Jay-Jay
Found this in a Dutch Nursery: http://www.coppelmans.nl/Plant/rosa-ariana-d-algier
Maybe a Dutch contribution to HMF.
The text says, that it would be just the, or a Gallica rose.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Jay-Jay
And this: https://www.haveabc.dk/18/complicata---rosa-gallica-complicata---ariana-d%27algier
REPLY
Reply #6 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Jay-Jay
And this: https://www.groeninfo.com/plantengids/rosa-complicata
It is used as a synonym... but why???
REPLY
Reply #7 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Jay-Jay
Will take a look at Your photo's. And found another Swedish nursery that uses the synonym: http://floralinnea.se/complicata.html
Could You describe the (strong) fragrance?
REPLY
Reply #8 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Jay-Jay
In the references for this rose is stated that in this book (http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=66.75) is written, that it is from the 20th century.
I apologize for the inconvenience of so many posts, but just one URL is allowed per post.
REPLY
Reply #9 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
Thank you Jay-Jay that was some interesting reading.
Other similar basic hybrids like 'Richardii', 'Pomifera Duplex' and 'Dupontii' all have some history behind them. Yet this rose does not seem to. I would like to know the reference that HMF uses to determine that 'Complicata' was raised before 1800.
Your point about Hovman is interesting, I noticed how dark pink the flowers were too, they appears very different from the 'Complicata' that I grow.
I will order 'Macrantha' this year which is a similar and also rather mysterious rose and compare the two together. The first time I saw 'Complicata' was glimpsed through a neighbour's narrow gateway in a steep Devon bank, the first flush of summer was over and these flat saucer shaped flowers shone out bright pink amongst the greenness.
REPLY
Reply #11 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Jay-Jay
I already guessed, that seeing such rose, would generate such poetic thoughts Andrew, so I asked a rose friend, too bring me one from Denmark, when he visits a rose-baptizing at Knud Pedersens Nursery.

By the way, two of his new Hybrid spinosissima's will be introduced at 26 juni 2018 during the 18e international rose-convention, and busses will drive from this convention to the nursery in Harlev. People, that are interested, but do not attend the convention are welcome too at the nursery Rosenposten.
REPLY
Reply #13 of 16 posted 29 NOV by jedmar
I have added the full texts on 'Complicata' from Joyaux, Testu and Krüssmann. I am still looking for a description said to have been made by Dr. Grenier of Rosa complicata in the 19th century.
The synonym 'Ariane d'Alger' seems to be from the book "Rosa/Rosae" of 2000, which I do not have. The synonyms maentioned in nursery catalogues are no proof - more and more nurseries base their descriptions on HMF!
If 'Complicata' is indeed a natural hybrid of R. gallica from the Jura hills, then the dating 1800 is definitely incorrect.
REPLY
Reply #14 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Jay-Jay
Thank You Jedmar.
Aa for that reference, the cross is Gallica x Canina and not Gallica x Macrantha.
REPLY
Reply #15 of 16 posted 29 NOV by jedmar
I have added a translation of an text in Italian by Roberto Viti in his Website "Museo Giardino della Rosa Antica", which, in turn is based on an article on Rosa Complicata which appeared in the "Curtis's Botanical Magazine" of May 1997.
This suggests that Rosa Complicata was supplied by the nursery Otto Froebel to Jules Gravereaux for his Rosarium L'Hay around 1900, and is indeed a species cross.
REPLY
Reply #16 of 16 posted 30 NOV by Patricia Routley
Jedmar, you are a wonderful researcher and rosarian. I am so glad you share your expertise with us on HelpMeFind. Thank you.
REPLY
Reply #10 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
It's the sort of rose Gertrude Jekyll, Vita Sackville West, William Robinson or Margery Fish would have loved, I can't believe nothing was written about it by them.
REPLY
Reply #12 of 16 posted 29 NOV by Andrew from Dolton
Thank you for all the pictures Patricia.
REPLY
Discussion id : 103-829
most recent 1 AUG HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 1 AUG by Sambolingo
Available from - Old Market Farm
www.oldmarketfarm.com
REPLY
Discussion id : 93-592
most recent 19 JUN 16 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 19 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
In some photos, I can see a lot of traits in common with Rosa canina. That species was often found in cultures that also had gallica roses. Would not be surprised of Complicata had either Canina or Alba ancestry in it somewhere.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 2 posted 19 JUN 16 by Raynyk
What do you think about the possible Macrantha ancestry?
REPLY
Reply #2 of 2 posted 19 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
I have only seen Macrantha once in my life. A long time ago, so I can't point out the traits exactly.

Same for Rosa arvensis.
REPLY
Discussion id : 75-257
most recent 24 NOV 13 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 24 NOV 13 by rose de France
le fichier 258 JPG est une erreur il s'agit de MArietta Sylva Tarouca comment corriger SVP merci
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 24 NOV 13 by jedmar
Nous pouvons le déplacer. Quel est la Photo-Id en bas de la photo?
REPLY
© 2017 HelpMeFind.com