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'Clementina Carbonieri' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
1 JUL 19 by
 Marnix
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In my opinion this Rose doesn't have a strong fragrance. I think it has most of the time no fragrance at all and on the right conditions some fragrance. But what a color! Great!
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In 1914 the breeders of this rose sent the following description to the 'Journal des Roses':
"Arbuste très florifère et vigoureux, fleur de jolie forme, rose violace clair; bouton allongé d'un superbe coloris nankin-rougeâtre luisant; pétales extérieurs nuancés de rose violace à onglet jaune safran."
i.e.
A purplish light pink flower, elongated bud of a superb nankin-red colour, shiny; outside petals purplish pink with a saffron yellow base.
In my opinion this is challenging the 'Clementina Carbonieri' as we know it today, which is, I think, probably wrongly identified.
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#1 of 5 posted
29 JUN 08 by
Unregistered Guest
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In our climate C.C . is a mix of colors--pink, red, orange and yellow. No hint even of purple. Our plant, incidentally , is from Italy, where it was bred. If what we have is an impostor, wonder what it could be?
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I wonder if our "Clementina" could be, in fact, the same rose we know as 'Isabelle Nabonnand', a rose largely grown in the Riviera as "Nonna Censy"...
Does anyone have any opinion about....?
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Reply
#3 of 5 posted
18 NOV 08 by
kai-eric
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hello maurizio.
clementina carbonieri, isabelle nabonnand and even souvenir de gilbert nabonnand are very similar, indeed.
i received them from different sources: cc/beales, in/ loubert, sdgn/frenchtearoses. they showed same bloomcolours all over the season, getting darker and of a more vivid red shading in hotter times.
the leaves also shared the same characteristics: elongated elliptical, prominent tip, coarse and wide serrations, margins slightly ondulated, impressed second veins, of medium stoutness.
contemporary descriptions told the blossoms being semidouble which surely doesn't match the plants in question.
so what...? no idea which of the three it is.
for further observations, especially for bud, receptacle and pedicel, i must attend new season.
best wishes
kai-eric schwarz
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Hmmm, what I think happened is a translation subtlety. Violace can actually mean an intense mauve pink and it could also refer to how Clementina starts out as an open bud. Indeed mine is a very hot neon mauve violet-pink if this makes sense. Mine is not red, but hot mauve.
My Clementina Carbonieri is very young but I noticed all the photos of it on HMF show a very short, stubby plant. HMF photos and my specific plant also show a far more sparse and outwardly branching habit (like the forking of a tree branch) Isabelle Nabonnand on the other hand, show a much taller, far more bushier plant on HMF. However, both have the same snaking bloom neck, same leaf shape, so perhaps they must somehow be related. Often this seems to happen with a lot of hybridizers when their rose picks up the same characteristics of the dominant parent and they are working within the same strain of plant.... Example, there are countless pink and cream striped roses constantly being developed that it's sometimes hard to tell one from another....
Finally I noticed that HMF photos consistently show Clementina as having very small flowers, whereas with Isabelle, often the blooms are significantly larger by comparison.
The final clue, I took a look at Souvenir de Gilbert Nabonnand and I'm thinking noooo way! Souvenir de Gilbert Nabonnand is MASSIVE from the photos on HMF. (Ref link: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.141868 ) The base of the rose is like tree trunks lol! and the canes exceptionally stout. The flowers are even more enlarged in size...Maybe what happened is the originating plant was Clementina, then others started to refine it for a larger bush size to Isabelle and finally Souvenir d.G. Nabonnand was bred so that it would serve better as large hedge or "shrub" rose.....???? Again these are just wild guesses on my part. But IMHO, Souvenire de Gilbert Nabonnand's is unlike both Clementina Carbonieri and Isabelle Nabonnand in terms of just the size and the growth habit.
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#5 of 5 posted
26 MAR 18 by
WarGar
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My Clementina Carbonieri sprawls quite a bit and throws longish canes. I thought that was due to it being planted on the east side of my house (morning sun only) and for several years shaded additionally by a large hydrangea, since removed. I have avoiding pruning it severely due to my understanding that Teas dislike hard pruning. Perhaps it is time to attempt to tame it! My General Gallieni, nearby, is being swamped by the older (in terms of when it was planted in my garden) Clementina Carbonieri. Flowers of CC look as portrayed most commonly in photos, so either it's CC or something similar.
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The breeder of this rose is Massimiliano Lodi (see 1913 reference); the firm Gaetano Bonfiglioli e Figlio introduced it.
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