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'Mademoiselle de Sombreuil' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 116-288
most recent 2 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 3 days ago by Desertgarden561
Can anyone provide information regarding Mlle. de Sombreuil's disease resistance?

Reply #1 of 3 posted 3 days ago by Margaret Furness
I grow "Carlesruhe cemetery Maria Bruhn", which is said to match roses grown as Mlle de Sombreuil. It's healthy in my no-spray garden, zone 9b, Mediterranean-type climate.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 3 days ago by Desertgarden561
Thank you for responding. I am also wondering how well Mlle. de Sombreuil performs in humid Southern climates?
Reply #3 of 3 posted 2 days ago by Rupert, Kim L.
Better than average mildew resistance unless extremely water stressed. Very good rust resistance with some black spot showing up late in the season on old foliage. That is in Zone 9b, Central California Coast, nine miles from the Pacific Ocean with extreme marine influence.
Discussion id : 115-987
most recent 8 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 1 APR by mmanners
We had some students doing DNA work in the summer of 2018. Using RAPD (with 5 primers), they found that George Washington Richardson is identical to Mlle. de Sombreuil. So it should likely be listed as a synonym for that rose.
Reply #1 of 10 posted 1 APR by Margaret Furness
Interesting work. Question: what was the source of the Mlle de Sombreuil they used?
Reply #2 of 10 posted 6 APR by mmanners
Margaret, It was the one grown by Vintage Gardens, originally found by Philip Robinson, and which appears identical to the one in the Lyon botanic garden.
Reply #3 of 10 posted 6 APR by Margaret Furness
Thank you. My memory says it was Phillip who identified our "Carlesruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn" as Mlle de Sombreuil. Pat and Patricia have noted that it grows more like a Bourbon, eg Souv de la Malmaison - but Malmaison is half Tea.
Reply #4 of 10 posted 6 APR by Patricia Routley
I only saw “Carlesruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn” in situ twice and noted that it had stout growth. I actually wouldn’t really recognise a Bourbon if I fell over one. But I am having great difficulty in matching the stout growth I saw on “Carlesruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn” with the fragile slender growth of "Mystery Cream Tea", also said to be ‘Mlle de Sombreuil’. Sorry, I haven’t really done my homework on this question, so forgive any foot in mouth ignorance.
Reply #5 of 10 posted 6 APR by jedmar
The pictures of CCMB have a lot in common with Nestel's drawing of Mlle de Sombreuil. Have a look at the colour and form of the buds and sepals for example. In Nestel's drawing the buds are shown as nodding, but they were apparently upright (See Comment on Nestel drawing uploaded by Christina Macleod). The buds of the "Mystery Cream Tea" are shaped differently.
Reply #6 of 10 posted 6 APR by Margaret Furness
"Mystery Cream Tea" is so similar to Devoniensis, we had to grow them side by side at Renmark to show it was different. It's a vicious one.
Reply #7 of 10 posted 7 APR by Patricia Routley
Malcolm, I’ve merged “George Washington Richardson” with “"Huntington La Biche”. It has ended up where you wanted it. I am sorry for the delay.
Reply #8 of 10 posted 7 APR by Ozoldroser
"Mystery Cream Tea" "Range View Pink Tea" is a completely different rose than "Carlsruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn" in habit, growth and features and the flowers of the former two study roses haven't much substance at all (finer and earlier?)
Reply #9 of 10 posted 7 APR by jedmar
The provenance of 'Mlle de Sombreuil' at Tête d'Or is not certain - most of the OGR's there are recent plantings. I would only trust a DNA comparison of the various clones, not a visual identification.
Reply #10 of 10 posted 8 APR by Margaret Furness
DNA testing, except for those with research facilities, is a cost I can't justify. For roses without continuity of name, we have to rely on skilled observers and/or appropriately detailed photos. For the time being I think we can assume that "Carlesruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn" is the same as "Huntington La Biche" and "George Washington Richardson" and the Tete d'Or rose labelled Mlle de Sombreuil, but whether the last is its correct name is uncertain.
Discussion id : 105-533
most recent 15 SEP 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 12 SEP 17 by Jeri Jennings
The study name "George Washington Richardson" should probably be added to synonyms for 'Mlle. de Sombreuil', as its identity appears to be pretty certain.

It was found on the grave of George Washington Richardson, a Northern California blacksmith who died, age 32, in 1896.
Reply #1 of 6 posted 12 SEP 17 by Patricia Routley
Has anybody grown "George Washington Richardson" alongside "Huntington La Biche" or "La Biche (In commerce as)"?
Reply #2 of 6 posted 12 SEP 17 by Jeri Jennings
No. There is little distribution for George Washington Richardson. But everyone here who knows both roses recognizes them as identical.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 14 SEP 17 by Patricia Routley
I suspect that we may end up with many foundling roses in the 'Mlle de Sombreuil' file one day. Whilst HelpMeFind does tell us which name the photographer has selected when the photo is opened, it is not immediately obvious at first glance. I think it will be valuable to have the photos edited with the name of the rose, (or foundling name, whichever is relevant). Would the photographers please insert names for the photos in this file and then I will feel happy to merge "George Washington Richardson". I have added the names to the "George Washington Richardson" file, but it is peak spring here and my garden calls.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 14 SEP 17 by Jeri Jennings
The only photos I am aware of are mine. But I'm not quite sure what I need to do.

Let it rest until you are at a less-busy time! Here, I'm just praying that cooler weather will continue. The plants seem to think it will.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 14 SEP 17 by Patricia Routley
Thanks Jeri. I was probably not clear in my comment. I will rephrase by asking:
Are there any photos in the 'Mlle de Sombreuil' file which were the rose once known as:
• "Huntington La Biche"
• "La Biche (In commerce as)"
If so, which ones please? I believe the "study name" should be included in the photo's description.
Reply #6 of 6 posted 15 SEP 17 by Jeri Jennings
Oh, I see. Likely all of them, since it is STILL in commerce as 'La Biche' despite the fact that most authorities are now in agreement that the rose which was at the Huntington as 'La Biche' is in actual fact 'Mlle. de Sombreuil'.

Let me take a look at the various photos and give you a better answer.
Discussion id : 100-347
most recent 4 JUN 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 1 JUN 17 by Jay-Jay
When one clicks on Sombreuil (LCl, Unknown circa 1880) this rose pops up???
And Huntingdon la Biche too.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 3 JUN 17 by jedmar
Jay-jay, what is your question? When I click on the LCl Sombreuil I only get the Climber = Colonoila White, not the Tea by Robert. "Huntington la Biche" was the Name of a found rose which was identified as 'Mlle de Sombreuil'.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 3 JUN 17 by Jay-Jay
As I wrote, every time I click on the name of that rose (Sombreuil (LCl, Unknown circa 1880)) when searching, 3 or more different roses pop-up. And sometimes colonial white.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 4 JUN 17 by jedmar
All roses with the Name Sombreuil should pop up - I get 5 different.
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