'Rosa arkansana Porter' rose reviews and comments

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'Rosa arkansana Porter' rose Reviews & Comments

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Discussion id : 72-861 most recent 14 JUL 13 SHOW ALL

Initial post 10 JUL 13 by Unregistered Guest

Reply #1 of 1 posted 14 JUL 13 by HMF supporting member

HMF Admin

Thanks	REPLY

Discussion id : 11-921 most recent 22 JUN 07 SHOW ALL

Initial post 19 APR 06 by HMF supporting member

David Elliott

I have noticed that one of the photos for this rose is markedly a different colour from the others. also it is labeled Rosa arkansana, the otheres as Rosa suffulta. A reference I have found states "Rosa arkansana, also known as Rosa pratincola, Rosa suffulta, and Rosa suffulta var. relicta".
Interesting how variable it is, hardly surprising though in view of the wide spread range, it shows how deceptive colour alone can be.

Reply #1 of 4 posted 23 APR 06 by Fara Shimbo

It gets better-- I've seen flowers of R. arkansana that are not so much striped as stippled pink on white. An example is here: http://www.em.ca/garden/native/nat_rosa_arkansana.html The flower color is very variable place to place, which is one of the things that makes these wild roses so enjoyable.	REPLY

Reply #2 of 4 posted 23 APR 06 by HMF supporting member

David Elliott

Reply #3 of 4 posted 23 APR 06 by Fara Shimbo

I'd love to but they're not mine. I could try to email the owner and ask. Sometimes my own arkansanas show a bit of this stippling, will try to get photos when they bloom again.	REPLY

Reply #4 of 4 posted 22 JUN 07 by Cavallo

That's amazing! I wish my suffulta did that. Mine's just clear, straight-up pink. Not that I enjoy it any less for being modest...	REPLY

Discussion id : 19-737 most recent 21 JUN 07 HIDE POSTS

Initial post 19 JUN 07 by Cavallo

As I just noted someone else pointing out in another forum, Krussmann, at least, seems to list a clear taxonomic distinction between suffulta and arkansana. Mine is exactly as described - densely bristly stems of bright green, leaflets 7-11, etc... I found it growing wild many years ago in Oneida County, NY, and brought it into the garden. It sprawls and suckers, but it's well worth it. It even produces the occassional late-season bloom.

Reply #1 of 12 posted 20 JUN 07 by HMF supporting member

Cass

I'm sure you're right about the distinctions. There will and should be distinctions within Rosa arkansana, and this one is formalized with a variant, var. suffulta.

HelpMeFind needed to decide on a resource for species roses and has, for the moment, settled on the IOPI: the International Organization for Plant Information Provisional Global Plant Checklist. It is a moving target, of course. Krüssmann is wonderful but now a 25 year old resource. The nicest thing about IOPI is the excellent search functions of the database, which a human can use, unlike the IPNI search engine.

You can review the database here:
http://www.bgbm.org/IOPI/GPC/default.asp

Run a query of Rosa suffulta, and you will see that it is shown as a synonym of Rosa arkansana var. suffulta.

In my brief acquaintance with species, I've found the easiest thing to forget about them is their variability. Our perceptions are polluted by the immutability of garden cultivars. I learned with the species in my part of the country that variability is the norm - - in hip shape, in foliage color, in bloom color, in plant height, even in foliage texture. I have to remind myself that all species rose garden selections are derived from the inherent variability within the species. We even see species that are reproduced by vegetative reproduction instead of by seed, which further biases our perception of what the species should look like.

When I am Queen, all species roses shall be sold only from seed-grown plants, derived from a colony of seed-grown plants.

Reply #2 of 12 posted 20 JUN 07 by Cavallo

Neat! I will check out the IOPI immediately.

And yeah - I know Krussmann is dated, but there's still a ton of great stuff in there. When I was considerably younger, that was what I relied upon for raw data before there was an internet, so I have a bit of a soft spot for it.

And please don't take my comment as a criticism of HMF. I was just spouting opinion based on a rose I grow.

Good luck with your coronation.

Reply #3 of 12 posted 20 JUN 07 by HMF supporting member

Cass

Did I come off sounding defensive? Sorry, I was just trying to explain how HMF is transitioning the species roses. It's still in process and it's full of little niggling issues. We lump, we split, we lump, we split. We're torn about separately listiing well known garden selections...many little problems.

IOPI has no pictures: it's just a list -- pure in its own way. I still use Krussmann all the time, along with Bean's Trees and Shrubs Hardy In The British Isles. I like that they are both opinionated. Oh, and Flora of China is online, with some line drawings and detailed botantical descriptions. Here's the key to Rosa, which in turn links to individual species, some of which link to the illustrations. I have the books, and it's all here, online:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=128746

About my coronation....I think the growing species roses would have to come behind genetic testing of a number of species that I think aren't separate species at all....

Reply #5 of 12 posted 20 JUN 07 by Cavallo

Not to worry. I'm just being overcautious about sounding pompous because I'm the new guy. I'll loosen up rapidly.

And yeah. Why can't genetic testing be as simple as a Ph test? For example, I'm not convinced about this 'double form of Rosa carolina' business, but I'm certainly no expert so who am I to contradict the published reports? If I could just peek inside the cells I could lay my questions to rest.

Reply #6 of 12 posted 20 JUN 07 by HMF supporting member

Cass

If you have some good pictures of R. carolina, I wish you'd post them to HMF. Any form would do. The only posted shot was taken in New Zealand. That's just wrong.	REPLY

Reply #7 of 12 posted 20 JUN 07 by Cavallo

Carolina itself, no - but the supposedly dwarf, double form, I do. I live just up the road from where it was 'rediscovered' in the 50's. I'll take a bunch of photos once it's in full bloom. I'm also asking permission from the ARS to post the text of their article on it from 1955. It seems to be largely absent from the internet, and this seems like the perfect place for it.	REPLY

Reply #8 of 12 posted 20 JUN 07 by HMF supporting member

Cass

Wonderful! Please do it.	REPLY

Reply #9 of 12 posted 21 JUN 07 by Cavallo

I will. I spent the better part of last evening looking through the gubbmint's copyright renewal database. In order for a copyright from 1955 to still be valid, it would have had to be renewed in 1983. I searched for a good couple hours and could find no trace of any renewal on the article or the entire ARA volume (or indeed, ANY ARA volume.) Absent any response from the ARS, I have to conclude that the article is in the public domain. I've prepared a searchable facsimile PDF. Is there some way to make it available?

Reply #10 of 12 posted 21 JUN 07 by HMF supporting member

Cass

I've done this before with Mel Hulse through the Heritage Rose Foundation. We've gotten ARS consent as a matter of comity, and it wasn't hard. Please send me a private email and I'll put you in touch with our contact at the ARS who moved this along very quickly. We used OCR software and produced an document of an ARS annual article on rootstock. You can see it here and also on the Heritage Rose Foundation website (in a much larger format):
http://ars.org/About_Roses/propagating-under.html

I have all the ARS annuals and can help out in any way. I've done those copyright renewal searches and came to the conclusion that it's much better to have the publisher's agreement, especially if there's an author and photos involved. Finding a place to make the article available is not a worry - - I can think of several.

Reply #11 of 12 posted 21 JUN 07 by Cavallo

Thanks again, Cass. Permission is in the bag, it seems. See my comments for R. carolina f. plena. Especially since I suspect we've strayed rather far from R. suffulta here. Still a little new here - I can't seem to find a way to email you privately. Once I have an address, I'll send you the PDF I made, all cleaned up, hi-rez, OCRred, etc.... Acrobat Pro is a wonderful thing.	REPLY

Reply #12 of 12 posted 21 JUN 07 by HMF supporting member

Cass

I see the links aren't live on the forum, probably as protection against bots. Go to GARDENS in the left column and search for Cass That will bring up a page with an email link.	REPLY

Reply #4 of 12 posted 20 JUN 07 by HMF supporting member

HMF Admin

HMF welcomes all feedback, both critical and complementary, that's how a site gets better !	REPLY

Discussion id : 12-312 most recent 19 JUN 06 SHOW ALL

Initial post 21 MAY 06 by sudiesue

We dug two of these rose plants up in Colorado and brought them home to the panhandle of Texas. The plants are doing well but this is the third year we have had them and they have not bloomed. Does any one have any suggestions?	REPLY

Reply #1 of 7 posted 22 MAY 06 by William

I am betting that your pH in your soil in not acidic enough. Have it tested then if it is neutral add about 9% phosphorus and 12% or more potassium(depending of how big you want your bloom). Sometimes roses are so vigorous that the acid cannot get to the top where it blooms. Hope this helps. William	REPLY

Reply #5 of 7 posted 19 JUN 06 by sudiesue

Thank you for the reply--Sudiesue	REPLY

Reply #2 of 7 posted 23 MAY 06 by HMF supporting member

Kim Rupert

I'd be willing to bet it's not the pH of your soil, but the chill hours in your climate. Just as there are stone fruit (apples, peaches, pears, etc.) and ornamentals (peonies, lilacs, etc.) which require "chill hours", there are also roses which require a threshold of cold to bloom. Many species roses and quite a few European Old Garden Roses require hours below forty degrees F to induce them to bloom.

Quite likely, where they grew in Colorado was much colder than where you live. My suggestion would be to dump ice around the crown of the plant several times this winter to 'fool' the rose into thinking it's had a harder, colder winter. This is precisely what you're doing when you store you tulip bulbs in the refrigerator or chilling your columbine seeds prior to planting to induce them to germinate or flower.

Until about WWII, most lilacs weren't suitable for milder winter areas, requiring fairly hard winter temperatures. Dr. Walter Lammerts developed and selected varieties which don't require that much chill and we now have the Descanso Lilacs, such as Lavender Lady, Angel White and California Rose which will bloom without harsh winter weather. Take a tip from the tulips and chill your R. arkansana plants with ice this winter. You'll probably have bloom this spring, IF you chill it long enough.

Reply #6 of 7 posted 19 JUN 06 by sudiesue

Thenk you--sudiesue	REPLY

Reply #3 of 7 posted 23 MAY 06 by HMF supporting member

Jeri Jennings

SudieSue, it does sound like the rose you have may require chill in order to bloom. But then, I would wonder whether what you have is not R. arkansana, or may be a slightly different strain of R. arkansana. Kim -- We have YOUR clone of R. arkansana here. This is, I think, its fourth year. The first 2 years I don't think it bloomed. Moreover, it went DORMANT, which I have seen so seldom, I thought it was dead. <G> I have, of course, NO winter chill, here in Coastal Ventura Co., SoCalif. Last year, our little guy had a few scattered blooms. THIS year, the plant has doubled in size, and is COVERED with buds. Reading that it may grow 20' roots, I suspect it needs to fully establish those "long feet," before it blooms productively. WILLIAM -- Alkaline conditions do not adversely affect this rose. It grows in alkali beds, and it is remarkably happy in our highly-alkaline conditions.Jeri Jennings

Reply #7 of 7 posted 19 JUN 06 by sudiesue

Thank you--sudiesue	REPLY

Reply #4 of 7 posted 24 MAY 06 by HMF supporting member

Kim Rupert