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'Prudence' rose Reviews & Comments
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Fitzhardinge bred her roses to look good indoors and especially by candlelight. Indoors the flowers are a rich red—lilac. By candlelight they look a deep warm pink.
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I'm not sure indoor lighting would have been a major consideration for a ten foot tall climber. They're the sort of thing that would be used to decorate the main entrance of the house.
I can see it being more of a concern for some of the shrub roses, given how she used them, but a lot of the blooms on a climber would presumably never be cut anyway, so in this case I think it likely that she would have been more concerned, or just as concerned, with outdoor lighting.
I must say the photos are surprisingly blurry for you. Most of your shots are perfect. Were you celebrating Prudence's blooming a bit too much? If so, it would be completely understandable.
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Maybe you're right about her attitude to climbers, though the powerful scent of 'Prudence' suggests it is meant to be picked when you can reach the flowers. She often spoke to the SMH (as a lady to a social inferior) about roses by candlelight, something she helped reintroduce to dining tables. 'Warrawee' was specially favoured there, and when it blooms I'll try to take a better standard of photo of it. Apparently the long exposure required by near-darkness needs a tripod mount.
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Ah, that makes sense. I hadn't thought of the long exposure required. A tripod does sound essential for that.
And roses by candlelight does sound like a good thing, even though nobody is ever likely to accuse me of being a lady.
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That sort of lady requires a deferential society that went up in smoke in the Second World War. During the depression, the SMH headed a letter "A letter from Mrs H.C. Fitzhardinge" as if it were a letter from the King.
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Initial post
5 OCT 15
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* This post deleted by user *
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Where did John get it from? Is it "very prickly". It looks as though it is going to be more than "semi-double". Exciting!
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Is it very prickly? I count up to seven prickles per centimetre. (See the photo I've just put up.)
Shoots from the base rise to six feet straight, then begin to arch sideways. Ten feet is attained in one season.
Paul Neyron itself is lovely but set against watery green leaves. Prudence however glows against very dark leaves.
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Looks like a real party girl. That's not a shy and retiring colour.
Should make a good substitute for a barbed wire fence too. It'll be interesting to see if it has inherited the Pernetiana susceptibility to disease as well as the spikes.
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No diseases. A few old leaves have black spot each year. That's it.
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Are you spraying it much?
(I was thinking of naming my next boat Prudence, so am already rather fond of the name)
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Where did John get it from? To quote my article in the Journal of Heritage Roses in Australia, Autumn 2015, p.41, " ‘Prudence’ has only been identified on an inference by John Nieuwesteeg, since Honeysuckle Cottage first sold it to Lilia Weatherly as ‘Paul Neyron’. But the inference is very strong: how many ten-foot hybrid tea climbers are there with cupped, scented, pink, double flowers and hundreds of Pernetiana thorns?"
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It would be nice to compare it with the rose currently sold as Clark's 'Queen of Hearts' (which may not be correct). Presumably John would have spotted it if it had been the same, though.
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I can't be sure yet how cupped Prudence's flowers are, but they are lighter in hue than those of the pseudo Queen of Hearts, which are fairly ruddy. The latter's leaflets are much lighter in colour than those of Prudence. (See new photo uploaded.)
I suspect any magenta rose may turn lilac around the edges, the equivalent of the blueing of scarlet roses people in the Fifties so objected to. Anyway, both Prudence and pseudo QoH do it. But QoH has much more formal and quartered flowers because it has to: Prudence has only 60 petals but QoH has 100.
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Just looking at what is available in the way of photos of "Queen of Hearts". As well as being less numerous, QoH's prickles have a different shape. They look to be about 30 degrees off square, while Prudence's are about 45, and have a much more pronounced curvature on the concave side.
TBH, looking at that shot of Prudence's one year old cane made me start laughing. It reminds me of the old Old Reed song: Vicious. This thing is not just spikey. It wants to eat babies.
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"Prudence" to stay clear of it...
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Margaret, I've altered my Reply #9 after seeing the pseudo Queen of Hearts at Bulla today.
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The first bud of the John-Nieuwesteeg-identified Prudence has opened. Straight away you see what's what: it's Neyron pink, not remotely salmon pink, very double, thus slow to open, and already strongly scented. And yes, the buds are not long and conical, but ovoid. Dark green matt leaflets, and there are many of them. Very new wood is mahogany.
Flowers are about 9 cm across, born singly on long, strong stems. There are about sixty petals. The scent is unfading, strong and sweet throughout. Every shoot carries a single bud. The flowers open luminous pink tinged lilac and with lilac reverses, small and muddled; after five days they fade to lilac and fall after another three. In profile they appear cupped with a recurve at the lip—changing to a nearly round pompom.
The colours of bud, opening flower, full flower make a beautiful combination.
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Any more updates on the progress of the first flower?
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See my amended Reply #11 below.
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From the comments and references, it would appear the provenance of 'Prudence' in Australia is:
Honeysuckle Cottage-1; Lilia Weatherley-2; John Nieuwesteeg before 2003-3; Stan Nieuwesteeg, Kurinda Nursery-4; Eric Timewell-5;
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Patricia, I should have said at the start that I have my information from John Nieuwesteeg and later his brother Stan direct.
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Yes. I just find it extremely handy to write the provenance in one line.
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