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'Green Rose Reversion' rose Reviews & Comments
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I was given cuttings of 'Green Rose Reversion' in July of 2014, and when my surviving plant first bloomed, I did get pink blooms, then I got both pink and green flowers, but for at least a year, it has "re-reverted", and now I only get the classic R. viridiflora blooms. Luckily, I really like R. viridiflora...
Virginia
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Did you take any photos Virginia? The petal end shape seems to have become more rounded with the change of colour.
Does anybody know if the "Viridiflora Sport" ' file no 31369 once available from Vintage, is the same as "Green Rose Reversion" file no 63942 ?
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Since the Viridiflora Sport dates to the 1850's and 'Green Rose Reversion' was discovered by Ralph Moore c.1990, I think separate files are justified. Although I suspect that the Green rose will occur and revert if growing conditions are right (or wrong?)...
No photos of the early pink flowers; they were a lighter pink than most of the flowers in Kim's photos, but I think they were otherwise similar. The green flowers blooming now look just like the other photos of R. viridiflora.
Looking back at my notes, though, I see that the cuttings I had in 2014 didn't survive, and my plant was given to me early last year. It did flower pink only briefly, then produced both kinds of flowers for a short while, but it has been producing green-only flowers since late-summer or fall of last year.
Virginia
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I meant the double quoted "foundlings" as against the single quoted 'rose'. We have three files:
'Viridiflora' (and other synonyms). File no. 3113.
"Green Rose Reversion" File no 63942
"Viridiflora Sport" File no 31369 once available from Vintage, and now listed by The Friends of Vintage Roses Collection.
I was wondering if these last two foundlings are the same and should the files be merged.
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You must be seeing something different from what I'm seeing. When I pull up "Viridiflora Sport", it says it was bred before 1855, although I see no references to support that date- or any references at all. I do see Vintage Gardens in the gardens tab, though, and I do wonder if they added the wrong rose, and 'Green Rose Reversion' is the rose they actually have?
I'm not sure if I'd call 'GRR' a foundling since the rose Moore was given actually sported to the pink rose in the Sequoia Nursery greenhouse?
Virginia
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Patricia, I think the last two files can be merged.
Ralph Moore did not discover the sport. It was brought to him by a man who's name will likely never be known.
Caroline Supinger may know, but I doubt it.
Robert
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That is what Mr. Moore always provided as the provenance of that rose. Supposedly, Vintage had a Viridiflora which consistently produced more "bronze" petals, as if it was a partial reversion to the pink. The rose given to Mr. Moore often produces everything from the pure green leaflets as petals, through varying levels of bronze, all the way to pure pink petals. That is the plant from which I sent you the cuttings, Virginia. I had lost mine and Paul Barden sent it to me, so yours came from Sequoia, through Paul Barden, through me. I would think all of the various entries for the "reversion" could be merged. I don't know what the triggers are that cause it to produce the variations, but this rose does.
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So the account on the description page should be changed? It says that the rose Mr. Moore was given 'reverted' to pink while being grown in the Sequoia greenhouses...
If a sport (or reversion from a sport) is discovered, is it considered a "foundling" with double quotes? Whether Mr. Moore or his customer discovered the reversion, it still doesn't seem as though it should be treated as a "found rose"...
Virginia
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I apologize for not being clear in what I wrote. What I provided on the description page is what I was referring to. Someone brought him a plant which produced heavily bronzed "petals" which he propagated in the green houses. If something is going to sport or revert, rapidly pushing the plant in high heat is often what it takes to cause the genetic "fabric" to "tear", the "genes to take a walk". The pink petals formed under the Sequoia green house conditions. The customer had very bronzed flowers. Mr. Moore "discovered" the pink "petals".
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Now that I come to think of it, it doesn't make sense that the mysterious pre-1855 "Viridiflora Sport" or "Green Rose Reversion" should be in double quotes.
If they were foundlings (rather that discover-ees), how could it be known that they had sported from R. viridiflora? Following this line of reasoning, I will replace the double-quotes for each rose.
Thanks, Kim, for the clarification. It is suggestive that Mr. Moore's customer had a bronzy sport like Vintage apparently had or has. Too bad that nobody has photos of this bronzy version; it sounds like a handsome (or at least interesting) plant. I wonder if the Vintage rose could be a partial re-reversion from 'Green Rose Reversion', or if their bronzy rose occurred under conditions similar to those of Mr. Moore's customer?
Virginia
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You're welcome, Virginia. I've read and heard that sports revert approximately 30% of the time to either the original or something resembling it. When you observe unstable mutations, you frequently see widely varying degrees of the mutation and/or reversion. Iceberg is a perfect example in its thorniness and habit. From the same batch of cuttings, often from the same plant, you can find dwarf, bushy, nearly prickle-free plants, all the way to extremely prickly, rangy, semi to fully climbing plants. Why wouldn't it be likely that's the case with the line that attempts to revert back to the "real" petals? The plant from Paul, which you and I both have, is sufficiently unstable that it produces everything from "pure Viridiflora" all the way to "real pink petals", for whatever reasons. I think this particular plant needs preserving as proof of Viridiflora's origins.
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