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There might be a misunderstanding. I posted pictures of Dr.Huey-rootstock which sprouted OWN-ROOT plant FROM ABOVE THE GRAFTED JUNCTION. Then I also post picture of Multiflora-rootstock which COULD NOT sprout OWN-ROOT plant from ABOVE THE GRAFTED JUCTION. What I meant is I get another own-root plant different from Dr.Huey-rootstock, such as a second own-root Pink Peace from a Pink-Peace (grafted on Dr.Huey). But I could not get a second own-root Comte de Chambord from a Comte (grafted on Multiflora).
Suckering from UNDER the GRAFTED JUNCTION is different from OWN-ROOT plant from branches ABOVE THE GRAFTED JUNCTION. Suckering simply gives another Dr. Huey, or another Multtiflora. But sprouting another own-root from ABOVE the grafted junction means I get a second plant true to what's above the grafted joint.
My clay is rock-hard, so Multiflora cannot sucker under PLUS it cannot sprout another own-root true to the branches ABOVE the grafted junction. But Dr. Huey is more aggressive in dry clay, its root can extend 4 feet away to steal water from my annuals flowers, as well as giving another own-root (true to the branches ABOVE the grafted-junction).
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I got multiflora suckers from the rootstock on three Portland roses from Pickering, I think it was.
I finally gave up and took the entire plants out. Snapping off the suckers did not help at all, the long multiflora canes simply grew back. I have heavy soil but the top soil is not hard.
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I keep putting rock-hard stuff on top, like pea-pebbles (to improve the scent), plus red-lava-rock (for iron & potassium) so the top of my clay is rock-hard. That doesn't stop aggressive Centifolia rose from suckering. Centifolia is a deep root, so it suckers BELOW 1 foot, where the soil is softer & wetter. Multiflora is a shallow root and cannot sucker through the top rock-hard clay. But I saw local library with loamier top soil has a suckering mulftiflora-rootstock (almost thornless) growing in the middle of their thorny-Rugosa-hedge. That Multiflora-branch looked way-better than Rugosa in tons of late fall rain.
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Nastarana: You are in zone 5a, do you remember the late Rosarian Karl Bapst, also in zone 5a (Indiana)? He's a strong advocate of burying the bud-union of Dr.Huey 4 inches or deeper below surface of soil. He stated that most of his 400+ roses (grafted on Dr.Huey) grew their own-roots ABOVE the grafted-junction. He's right.
When I killed 5 Knock-outs (grafted on Dr. Huey), these are over a decade old, I found: 1) moist spot with BOTH Dr. Huey root-stock, plus own-roots ABOVE the bud-union. 2) wet & poor drainage clay where Dr. Huey disappeared (rot) completely, and own-root Knock-out took over 3) dry spot where I could not dig deep to plant super deep, and only Dr. Huey survived, zero own-roots ABOVE the grafted-junction.
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Many rose-growers in Australia plant with the bud union below the soil surface or mulch, to encourage formation of own roots, and thereby resilience against drought and bushfire. I don't because the only roses I plant budded are those which are suckerers in their own right, and those which won't strike from cuttings.
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I do plant with the bud union at about 4" deep, as suggested, and I rarely have had Dr. Huey sucker. I don't know what happened with the 3 Portlands, maybe they weren't deep enough.
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That explains why multiflora-rootstock suckers at local library ... they planted at ground level, plus mulched with fluffy wood-chips. In contrast, I planted my Comte (grafted on multiflora) so deep below rock-hard clay, so it cannot sucker.
My zone 5a practice of dumping soil on top for winter-protection gave me a few own-roots by accident, they sprouted from the low-branches. On December 2011, I dumped horse manure (pH 8) mixed with peat moss (pH 4), then topped with willow-branches for winter protection. In spring own-root-Radio Times gave me a baby-own-root .. it rooted itself. That baby was larger than a band-size, but I killed it. One thorny Radio Times is plenty. Back in 2011 I didn't know that willow-branches has rooting hormone.
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Oh, multiflora can. It's just more uncommon than in Dr. Huey. It is also more dangerous, because it can naturalize in the wild. But they tend to make better grafted roses in my climate. The same can be said for Rosa canina.
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Michael Garhart, do you or have you used R. canina for rootstalk? With what results if you have? Do you know why R canina was rejected by American growers?
I was thinking of trying to bud onto my "Arcata Pink Globe", which roots wherever it touches down and has a strong and thick root system.
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#2 of 6 posted
2 SEP 17 by
 Jay-Jay
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I always use Rosa canina (Schmidt's Ideal and Inermis) rootstocks and they perform well... but I live in the Netherlands.
The Scandinavian growers seem to prefer Multiflora as rootstock.
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Dr. Huey was bred in California, thus become American preferred rootstock for dry & hot & alkaline regions.
Jay-jay: With your soil pH at 8, do you have loamy & fluffy soil, or rock-hard clay like mine (at pH 7.7)? Multiflora declines in my heavy clay, and doesn't do well for KBW's loamy soil and hot & dry weather.
Multiflora-rootstock is the worst-performer for KBW's hot Pakistan (up to 113 F), but Centifolia-rootstock is best for his climate. After seeing how Multiflora-rootstock took over a bed of thorny-Rugosa-hedge in cold & rainy fall at local library, I can see why Multiflora is best for cool climate & loamy soil with high rain-fall and snow.
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#4 of 6 posted
2 SEP 17 by
Jay-Jay
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Soil is given, so I work with it and try to improve it. The roses that do not perform die and that's that and are replaced. Those that do perform might get a mate of it's own kind. That's how I do it.
I'm not a soil freak, but a rose freak.
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Rosa canina was used as a rootstock in Australia, but is bird-spread, and has become a declared weed (as has eglanteria). I don't think it has been used as an understock for a long time. The longterm survivors in dry areas are on R indica major (see http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.85384). It was abandoned several decades ago, and only backyard growers for hardware chains still use it, judging by what sprang up in my garden. Manettii hasn't been used for a long time.
The usual understocks here now are Dr Huey for alkaline soils, multiflora for acid soils, and Fortuneana for sandy ones.
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Fantastic info. Thank you !!
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This is a huge plant! How old is it?
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Eleven years. It's in the best soil on my property, as there was a huge pine-tree nearby for a while - it died before I bought the land. The fence is to keep rabbits out of the vegetable garden.
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Erk. I hope my T4R rootstocks don't start doing start. Bit of a nuisance.
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