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'Rosier des Indes odorant' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 74-601
most recent 16 OCT 13 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 16 OCT 13 by Daniel from Normandy
Bonjour,
Obviously Odoratas have played an important role in the history of the rose. One main reason is there ease to blomm several times during the season. Thus, the rose described here as "once-blomming in spring or summer" cannot be R odorata. Beautiful, looks like, but is not an Odorata.

Fascinated by there history, I have tried to know when odoratas, like odorata fragrans (according to Redouté) was called Hume's blush T-SC ? It is said here that this name was given by the 2 English introducers in England Hume and Colvill. I have not been abble to confirm this point and failed to find its use before Hurst has published his papers on roses. Same remarks for the 3 others so called "studs".
So, I would appreciate very much to know if some friends of Hmf have found the use of these terms between the years 1808 and 1930-40 !
Kindly,
Daniel
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Discussion id : 73-658
most recent 21 AUG 13 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 21 AUG 13 by Unregistered Guest
Available from - vivaio La campanella
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Discussion id : 5-160
most recent 31 JAN 13 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 25 FEB 04 by Unregistered Guest
Does anyone know whether Agnes Smith is available in the US? If so, where?

Lindsey
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Reply #1 of 13 posted 25 FEB 04 by Rita Granata
Hi Lindsey,

I can't really answer your question with regards to availability in the US, for as far as I am aware, "Agnes Smith" is only available from the Heritage Rose Society (in limited quantities) in Sydney, Australia. Whilst it is named so after the lady whose grave it was found growing on (in Rookwood Cemetary, in Lidcombe, Sydney) - it is thought to be "Hume's Blush" by some of our rose experts (I am no expert, I simply love and grow them - so cannot confirm or deny this rose is what it is claimed to be).

The photos you see here on HMF were taken by me last October, (2003 in Sydney) at the Cemetary. This bush is growing in the rose garden which is maintained by the Heritage Rose Society and in particular by a lady called Barbara May, who is a very dedicated rosarian and without her, I am sure these roses would perish). They have quite a wonderful, extensive garden of 'found roses' in the middle of the cemetary which is one of Australia's oldest, largest and most historical.

I bought a grafted plant last November for my own garden (in Sydney, Australia) and it is doing very well.

I hope this helps (excuse my not responding to your posts on GW - I am unable to post on there).

Best of luck in your quest for this rose,
Rita.
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Reply #9 of 13 posted 21 OCT 11 by Patricia Routley
Hello Rita,
Do you think your photo of "Agnes smith" would be better placed in the "Agnes Smith" file?
Since your 2004 comment, we have opened a file for this foundling and it is an easy matter for you to move your photo.
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Reply #11 of 13 posted 31 JAN 13 by Rita Granata
Sorry Patricia, its been some time since I've been on here having sold my property @ Dean Park. Yes, of course, by all means, I would love for Agnes Smith to be moved to the appropriate files. I have forgotten how to do this.
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Reply #10 of 13 posted 21 OCT 11 by HMF Admin
Rita,

Would you like HMF to move your Agnes Smith photos to the proper listing ?
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Reply #12 of 13 posted 31 JAN 13 by Rita Granata
Again, apologies, yes, please, do move these photos to the appropriate files. thank you kindly. Rita
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Reply #13 of 13 posted 31 JAN 13 by Patricia Routley
Moved. Thanks.
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Reply #2 of 13 posted 25 FEB 04 by Unregistered Guest
Rita,

Thank you for your reply. While I'm sorry to hear that Agnes Smith isn't available in the US (perhaps it will be some day), I am delighted to know that it appears to match descriptions of Hume's Blush. I hope the next step will be a series of DNA tests to try to prove its identity.

Lindsey
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Reply #3 of 13 posted 19 OCT 04 by Ian Menkins
Hi Lindsey,

The closest rose you may have in the US is Bermuda Spice, (aka. Spice). There is some contention as to whether Agnes Smith is Hume's Blush. I do not believe it is, as I have seen better contenders in Australia, which match the old Redoute painting more precisely. Moreover they match the taxonomy and growth habit for Rosa XOdorata very well. The rose that Beales imported to the UK via a "circuitous route" from Sangerhausen was apparently imported to Australia in the 60s by the Ross family in SA (Ross Roses). They still sell this as a grafted rose. But of course, this is of no help to you, as you live in the States. If you like, I could try to send you seed off Australian roses that closely match the Redoute painting, but there would be no guarantee if the seed would germinate or even if it would throw to the original. The results could be interesting nevertheless. Please let me know.

Ian Menkins
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Reply #4 of 13 posted 26 OCT 04 by anonymous-32121
Hi, Ian. Thank you for your reply and your kind offer. Yes, I would be interested in receiving seeds from these roses. I do have Spice and will try planting seeds from it this fall if any of the hips mature, but so far, none have, and the season here is just about over. Do you have an opinion of the "Hume's Blush" which Peter Beales sells?

Lindsey
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Reply #5 of 13 posted 8 MAR 05 by Ian
Hi Lindsey,

I have never been 100% sure about Beale's "Hume's Blush" as I have never actually seen it in the flesh. The photos do, however, seem to suggest a slightly paler-looking flower than the Redoute original. But the flower form and the hip characteristics looks correct.

I am trying to source some seed, but as you can appreciate, tea roses produce large hips which often contain only one or two seeds, so seed is somewhat scarse. However, in time I will have some, as I intend to grow all of the Hume's Blush contenders in the garden.

You can contact me further by email on
xxxxxxx@yahoo.com.au

Regards
Ian
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Reply #6 of 13 posted 9 MAR 05 by RoseBlush
Ian

We have removed your email address from your post as this will attract spammers. Instead please register on HelpMeFind and record your email address there. It will not be displayed but people can contact you through HelpMeFind and if you like you can still remain anonymous.

Smiles,

Lyn
helpmefind.com
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Reply #7 of 13 posted 6 AUG 05 by Ben Boorman
Why are neither rose noted in this string (Agnes Smith & Hume's Blush Chine) listed on Helpmefind?

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Reply #8 of 13 posted 6 AUG 05 by RoseBlush
Information regarding the availability of various roses are supplied by the nurseries. HelpMeFind has introduced a sponsorship program where nurseries can support the site and we can me more information available to users. It has always been our goal to keep the site free for all HMF users, so support of nurseries helps us improve and enhance the site and helps us keep inventories current.

Smiles,

Lyn
helpmefind.com
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Discussion id : 50-349
most recent 4 DEC 10 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 4 DEC 10 by IanM
There are a number of myths and fallacies associated with this rose, and it is important to note the description provided for Hume's Blush in the Botanical Register, Vol. X, Plate 804, (published 1824 by James Ridgway, London). Edwards clearly states that Hume's Blush was introduced to Britain in 1809 by Sir Abraham Hume, who raised it from seed (which was the fashion of the day) and released the plant to the public. It is therefore possible that more than one seed was raised and released under the general name of "Hume's Blush", which could account for discrepancies seen today. I have read many accounts that claim Hume imported his Hume's Blush as a live plant from India, but this appears to be incorrect.

It is also interesting to note that early discrepancies existed in the descriptions and iillustrations of Hume's Blush. For example, Plate 804 in Edwards' Botanical Register shows many discrepancies with Redoute’s illustration, although they are admittedly very similar plants and said to be the same rose. The first thing we notice is that the bud characters are quite different. Redoute’s illustration shows a distinctly swollen and articulated receptacle where the pedical joins the bud. However in Edward's illustration this globular and articulated receptacle is completely absent. Also we see that the rose in Plate 804 depicts numerous erect hairs on the pedicels, petioles, and rachis; however Redoute’s rose is by contrast completely smooth (glabrous). We can only conclude then that these two roses were not the same rose.

I have long held the belief that there never was one "Hume's Blush", but actually several similar clones that Hume had raised from seed and released under this name. There will of course be some people who will take Redoute's illustration as final, but I believe the reality is far more complex.
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