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"The Portland from Glendora" rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 47-364
most recent 9 AUG 10 HIDE POSTS
 
I'm looking to identify this rose. I think it may be Portland from Glendora -- can anyone look at these photos and confirm that or tell me how Portland from Glendora is different from this rose? Or suggest other roses it may be? I got this rose from Nor'East during their closing sale about a year ago, tagged The Dahlia Rose, which it is not. It is a vigorous grower, the blooms at full open are between 2 and 2.5 inches across and it is sweetly fragrant. Click on the pictures to enlarge them. Thanks.
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Reply #1 of 5 posted 8 AUG 10 by Cass
The shape of the receptacle is right for "Glendora," i.e. it is small and narrow, but the rest of the characters don't match. I don't think it's "Glendora."
Here's what's different.
1. "Glendora" blooms in clusters of up to 7 buds. Solitary blooms are uncommon.
2. The foliage on my plants is more rugose and coarser, without rounded points, with lots of 7-leaflet leaves.
3. "Glendora" is famous for producing many (but not all) quartered blooms that reveal a pip in the middle. The quartering is distinct, with the petals lined up and stacked on top of one another.
4. Almost all the sepals have little leafy appendages.
5. The flowering laterals have lots of longer, very sharp, straighter falcate prickles within 2 leaves below the blooms.
6. The armature on the canes basal canes consists of thin, tan, sickle-shaped, slightly down-turned prickles.
7. No where on "Glendora" do I find any wood like that which appears on your shot of the stipule.

Here's an old, faded shot showing the clusters of blooms, the shape of the bloom, the coarse foliage, and the appendages on the buds.
http://www.rosefog.us/imagesAtoI/Glendora.jpg
http://www.rosefog.us/imagesAtoI/GlendoraSpringFoliage.jpg

I grow Rose du Roi (supposedly the true one, a reversion from the striped sport Panachée de Lyon), and your rose is not it, either, altho it's close. Rose du Roi has receptacles that are covered with glands. This enormous file was shot to demonstrate macro mode on a camera, so I apologize it's so large. It does show a bud of Rose du Roi.
http://www.rosefog.us/TemporaryImages/CanonG10.jpg
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Reply #2 of 5 posted 8 AUG 10 by Rosaholic's Southern California Garden
Okay Cass. Thanks. I guess it's back to the drawing board on that one. Anyone got any ideas who this rose is?
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Reply #3 of 5 posted 8 AUG 10 by Cass
Just guesses:
What Lowe sold as General Cavaignac
"Pickerings Four Seasons Rose"
What's sold as Rembrandt
Indigo
Rose du Roi of commerce
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Reply #4 of 5 posted 9 AUG 10 by Rosaholic's Southern California Garden
Thanks, Cass.

I don't have access to any of these. If anyone has any of the plants on Cass's list, a comparison with the above photo set would be appreciated here. I assume this is a fairly common variety, as it came from Nor'East, who is not known as a propagator of OGR's. But I'd really like to know what this rose is. I like it alot.
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Reply #5 of 5 posted 9 AUG 10 by Patricia Routley
I like your rose a lot too. I have been peering at your very clear pictures as I have a similar foundling called “Balingup Lane” (syn: “Wilson St. Nannup”). I can see lots of similarities between the two – the flower, the stipule, the green canes and the basal thorns. I am unsure about the leaves. However, the hip differences between our two roses convinces me we have two different roses. However, I have looked at Cass’ suggestions for my rose:
What Lowe sold as General Cavaignac – the leaves are too rounded
"Pickerings Four Seasons Rose" – too pale pink
What's sold as Rembrandt - pix of the Belgium Rembrandt is similar
Indigo - too blue and too many petals.
Rose du Roi of commerce. Close. Possibly need research, but “of commerce” in USA, just how?

Because there are similarities between our two roses, you might like to have a look at “Balingup Lane” (syn: “Wilson St., Nannup”) as I have noted some discarded possibilities for my rose at the bottom of the HelpMeFind page and they may help you.
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Discussion id : 30-529
most recent 24 MAY 10 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 23 SEP 08 by kahlenberg
could this one be a sister-plant of sidonie? habit, bloomform and -cycle are very much alike. since it is considered a "found" rose - who found it and where?
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Reply #1 of 6 posted 23 SEP 08 by jedmar
See the first reference.
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Reply #2 of 6 posted 23 SEP 08 by Cass
To pull together the story a bit....Vibert's Damask Perpetuals derived from Rose de Trianon were grouped together by mid-19th century rosarians. Sydonie and Joasine Hanet were indeed within that group. We have traced references to Joasine Hanet in the USA, at least the East, by the 1870's. It appears to have been was lost to commerce in the USA subsequently, although I haven't done a comprehensive search of nursery catalogs.

"The Portland From Glendora" survived in California in at least two locations. The best know was collected in Glendora, Southern California, where it was preserved in the Huntington collection as "MacGregor's Damask." It was found again in Northern California and placed in the Sacramento Old City Cemetery collection as "Aunt Sally."

It is a robust plant, although the wood remains fairly thin except at the very base, and it shows a strong resemblance to the Portlands: high-shouldered, bloom evenly scattered all over the plant, never really as profuse as we've come to expect, nicely scented, and very hardy. It blooms in cycle with my Rose du Roi and shares many characteristics of the type, although it forms a larger plant - - about 2 meters x 2 meters. "The Portland From Glendora" is less stiffly upright than most Hybrid Perpetuals, gracefully clothed with foliage right to the ground. The bloom form is rarely perfect, but the plant is a willing producer and versatile - growing in climates as diverse as Southern California and Central Vermont. It is a rose looking for its real name.
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Reply #3 of 6 posted 25 SEP 08 by kahlenberg
thank you, that was quite helpful, though i may seem to be a bit slow. i must confess, i´m not into rosarian history at all. does the story go like this: monsieur vibert once in 1847 has listed a rose he named "joasine hanet" in a catalogue of his, probably sold it to somewho in the united states, where it was left to oblivion and years later it has been "identified" as the very one discribed in vibert´s rose list?
or is it rather like this: the heirs of some rose-collector overseas, who gathered europe-bred plants came across a rose of which they thought it must have been among the ones shipped by vibert and named it "joasine hanet"?
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Reply #4 of 6 posted 26 SEP 08 by Cass
The story is like your first scenario. We call this process "attribution."

In the 1970's, one hundred and twenty years after Monsieur Vibert introduced 'Joasine Hanet,' 'Joasine Hanet' was no where to be found in commerce. Plants lose their labels and thus their identities easily, especially when major catastrophes or world event intervene. But in three favored locations where roses can live a very long time without much care, three identical roses were found, with no labels and no history. Through study of roses of its type, its foliage, its habit, and its color, careful rosarians decided that 'Joasine Hanet' is the mostly likely identity of the rose found in Southern California (given the study name "The Portland From Glendora"), the rose found hundreds of miles away in Northern California (given the study name "Aunt Sally") and the rose found across the ocean in Australia (given the study name "Kew Cemetery Portland").

The story can go full circle if a respected botanical garden produces its own, independently grown and labeled specimen of 'Joasine Hanet.' When that plant is compared to "The Portland From Glendora," "Aunt Sally," or the "Kew Cemetery Portland," we will know the attribution is correct.

Careful botanical collections always note the "provenance" or history and source of their plants. 'Joasine Hanet' is listed in the garden at Sangerhausen, probably the preeminent botanical collection of roses. You can see a picture of this rose on HMF. If the provenance of that plant is independent of the "found roses" and if the plant is identical in all important respects, the attribution will be confirmed.
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Reply #5 of 6 posted 27 SEP 08 by kahlenberg
thank you for taking so much time!
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Reply #6 of 6 posted 24 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Your excellent description perfectly matches my plant's behavior in LA., as well as my friend's in Santa Monica, but another freind in St Helena, Ca, describes it as shocklingly profuse there and in Sebastapool.
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Discussion id : 38-895
most recent 28 AUG 09 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 28 AUG 09 by Margaret Furness
This rose suckers if grown on its own roots, though less aggressively than some. It has been found in a number of locations in Australia; a survivor.
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Discussion id : 30-476
most recent 21 SEP 08 HIDE POSTS
 
Reply #1 of 0 posted 21 SEP 08 by jedmar
Yes, they need to be merged. Thank you for pointing this out.
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