HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Capucine Bicolore' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 97-546
most recent 6 MAR 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
A few people have told me that foetida has fragrant foliage. I see it listed as such under Persiana, but not here in this listing. Does anyone know? Supposedly the leaves smell fruity?
Reply #1 of 11 posted 14 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
I've not encountered any "Foetida" variant (Copper, Yellow, Bicolor, etc.) which did not possess the "Juicy Fruit Gum" scent to their peduncles, sepals and new growth tips. That scent can carry through a few generations when bred with the right mate.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 15 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
Thanks :)
Reply #3 of 11 posted 15 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
You're welcome! That includes Persian Yellow, the double yellow. It has a luscious fruity smell to those parts.
Reply #4 of 11 posted 6 NOV 17 by Plazbo
Do you know of any examples that have carried the fragrance? Like does Soleil d'Or? I imagine if it did it'd be mentioned so probably isn't. I just haven't found anything with it that doesn't have feotida in its name .
Reply #5 of 11 posted 6 NOV 17 by Kim Rupert
Yes, Soliel d'Or does carry that type of plant scent. As you visit nurseries and public gardens, rub the sepals, buds, peduncles and new growth tips of the roses you encounter. You will find a surprising number which express various scents through those parts. Of course, the closer to the scented species they are, usually the stronger those scents are, but they sometimes come through some generations away from the sources. Many OGRs carry differing scents in those parts. One of the things which continues surprising me is how many people who have "years of experience" with roses, have never noticed these sources of scent. Not all roses carry them, but once you begin "molesting" the roses you encounter, I think it will surprise you just how many DO.
Reply #6 of 11 posted 7 NOV 17 by Plazbo
Hurray! That possibly alters plans a bit (using a hybrid that has a repeating parent).

In your experience/opinion would crossing with a more glandular plant bring out these scents without molesting (similar to how the sweet briars scent can hang in the air)?

I'm still trying to work out what I'm doing with breeding, foliage fragrance is up there in the interests (along with crested....but Moore's work with that isn't available here in Australia as far as I can tell)
Reply #7 of 11 posted 7 NOV 17 by Kim Rupert
I would seem more likely to obtain glandular results with plant scents using glandular parents, rather than those which don't possess the glandular trait, but that isn't an absolute. Add that combining two parents could easily influence not only the type of glandular scent expressed, but also the strength as well as whether it is even expressed or not.

Working with Fedtschenkoana, I observed the plant scents were often passed down, but virtually always in altered scent types. Fedtschenkoana's scent reminds me of "Nobel Fir with hardwood smoke". First generation offspring expressed varying levels of pine, spruce, cedar and further generations altered these not only in strength but also changed what they smelled like. Complete lack of scent in many instances occurred by the third generation, though there were some which still possessed some plant scents. I haven't bred with Foetida, but I would imagine you should see something similar breeding with it.
Reply #10 of 11 posted 6 MAR 18 by Plazbo
I agree, glandular parents would be the way to go it's just a matter of finding them, that info often isn't easily available and seeing the older roses in person generally requires interstate travel....the rose gardens of Sydney are lacking compared with southern states when it comes to older varieties.

The lack of scent by the third generation is the big issue, add in Foetida blackspot troubles, low fertility (if going all the way back to species), lack of juvenile remontancy and it's a bit of a mountain. Soleil d'Or possibly isn't the best option available either but it's the better of the knowns...unless anyone has any suggestions for Pernetiana's with the juicy fruit gum scent to their growing parts.

Possibly worth going to Lady Penzance, at least in theory the pollen should be feotida and whatever LP chromosomes paired up with those....may bring more glandular genes with it. But wouldn't be able to smell the juicy fruit bits over the apple to determine if I even like the juicy fruit bits and no chance of flowers in seedlings for a few years to check sepals,etc is a bit of a "that will take a lot of space"...

I expect to to a lot of line and back crossing any way I's just deciding that first step.
Reply #11 of 11 posted 6 MAR 18 by Kim Rupert
Don't allow that first step to paralyze you. Select several potential mates and pollinate them all. Select the most promising from the bunch and use those observations to help you focus where you believe you should be mining. Unfortunately, with goals such as yours, there are bound to be many dead ends. Spending too much time intellectually determining what the mates should be can cost you much time. Because of the fertility pitfalls you're likely to encounter, selecting your initial parents based upon their fertility and ease of germination will provide you with the evidence needed to narrow your efforts and gain you a great deal of time. Also, collect all the pollen possible and don't be afraid to use it over a long period of time. Under suitable conditions, it can remain viable for a significantly longer period than is generally accepted. Granted, my conditions are likely more conducive to that practice than many others, but it wasn't until I began harvesting every available bloom and holding the pollen a full season, using it on every potential seed parent bloom I was able to make headway with the Minutifolia, Hugonis and now, hopefully, Xanthina, Stellata mirifica, Puzzlement and Spithamea hybrids. Unless you are extremely lucky and can decide on the most beneficial seed parent on your first try, the "shot gun" approach is very likely to provide you with the fastest success. Good luck!
Reply #8 of 11 posted 7 NOV 17 by Margaret Furness
Crested Jewel is in Araluen Botanic Garden in WA - I don't know where they got it from. Probably Melville's nursery before the change of ownership. You could contact Heritage Roses in Aus members to send you pollen.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 7 NOV 17 by Kim Rupert
Margaret, Roy Rumsey was Mr. Moore's Australian agent for a long time. Many of his roses made it to your shores through him. His "Rum 10" was the thornless multiflora he obtained from Mr. Rumsey. Odd, as we've not been able to import from Australia for many decades...
Discussion id : 93-033
most recent 27 MAY 16 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 27 MAY 16 by CybeRose
Libro de Agricultura (Written in the 12th century)
Abu Zacaria Iahia aben Mohamed ben Ahmed Ebn el Awam, Sevillano
Trans. by Don Josef Antonio Banqueri (1802)

Chap 7, article 26, p 303
Segun Abu-el-Jair, hay rosales de diferentes colores, encarnado, blanco, leonado (ó amarillo), de color de lapislázuli (ó celeste), y de este mismo color por defuera, y leonado por dentro.
En el oriente hay rosas amarillas y celestes, una que tiene lo exterior de la hoja amarillo, y lo interior celeste; y otra con lo exterior de la misma celeste, y lo interior amarillo, cuya rosa es muy comun en Tripoli de Siria; y la otra amarilla se halla hácia las partes de Alexandria; las quales todas se cultivan de un mismo modo con corta diferencia.

[According to Abu-el-Jair, there are roses of different colors, pink, white, fawn (or yellow), color of Lapis (or blue), and the same color outside and inside tawny.
In the east there are yellow and blue roses, one having the outside of the petal yellow, and blue inside, and another with the same blue outside, and yellow inside, the rose is very common in Tripoli of Syria; and the other yellow is towards the parts of Alexandria; whick all are grown in the same way with little difference.]

The Latin "cerulea" (miniata; scarlet) was sometimes misread as "caerulea" (blue). This suggests that Abu-el-Jair had not seen the rose, but took his description from a Latin text.

Whether the scarlet color was inside or outside is a matter of perspective. Some English writers who certainly knew our R. foetida bicolor wrote that the flowers were red on the outside; others said the red was on the inside. And this implies that Abu-el-Jair took his information from at least two Latin texts written in the 12th century or earlier.
Discussion id : 93-031
most recent 27 MAY 16 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 27 MAY 16 by CybeRose
Plantarum seu stirpium historia (1576) p. 446
Lobel (Matthias de l'Obel, 1538-1616)
"Pares & cognatiores illis Luteas, cùm aliàs saepe vidimus Argiera Affricae ex Numidia, Galliae inquilinas factas: tum in Anglia consimiles, solerti manu in Genistae scapù insitas, unde colorem, odorem, viresque mutuantur novas. Est & iamdiu videre Caeruleae in hortis Italicis.”
[There is also long to see the blues in the gardens of Italy.]

The Latin "cerulea" (minium-colored, or scarlet) was sometimes misread as "caerulea" (blue). This is obviously what happened here, as there are no blue roses at all, let alone any that are similar to the yellows.
Discussion id : 42-776
most recent 3 JAN 16 SHOW ALL
Initial post 27 FEB 10 by Unregistered Guest
has anyone ever come across a selection of this rose that's blackspot resistant?
Reply #1 of 6 posted 19 NOV 14 by styrax
Ironically, foetida itself isn't very susceptible to BS when well cared for- it is the descendants you have to look out for.
Reply #2 of 6 posted 2 JAN 16 by Michael Garhart
I actually disagree. Both it and its mutation parent like... melt here. Literally, it spots so badly that it looks like the foliage is melting off of it. It looks... really bad :[ It begins in May and is over by the end of June. Our weather is essentially the exact opposite of where it is native.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 2 JAN 16 by styrax
Interesting! It is quite clean here!
Reply #4 of 6 posted 2 JAN 16 by Michael Garhart
Which area? I have seen it clean and naturalized on the dry half (Eastern) of Idaho, which is outside of the major Pac. NW rain systems.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 3 JAN 16 by styrax
(More or less) Mid-Atlantic East Coast. Which is, thinking about it, even stranger.
Reply #6 of 6 posted 3 JAN 16 by Michael Garhart
Well, there are many strains to most fungii. I know that my area is highly prone to 2 types of BS, but rarely prone to mildew types.
© 2024